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More than Agile? Snark aside, I have a personal office and I love it. I don't like to listen to constant noise/music to cancel out the other noise/music. I lik

More than Agile? Snark aside, I have a personal office and I love it. I don't like to listen to constant noise/music to cancel out the other noise/music. I like being able to have private calls without all of the noise in the background. If I'm working on something particularly difficult I like closing my door and having peace and quiet. I also enjoy the sense of ownership and prestige. It's nice feeling like I matter and my space and attention are worth something. Working in an open office is too chaotic for me. Being around people is exhausting and distracting. I like to have a space I can retreat to for a few hours and get some deep work done. Silence is usually what I appreciate the most.

ryandrake 7y ago
Just to get the alternate view out there too: I had an office once with a door that closed. As an extrovert it was awful. I felt lonely all day. The only way to get any human contact besides email and text was to leave and go walk the halls or find some common area. I ended up pretty much never using it and instead worked from the break room. From time to time they’d give me an officemate to share the office, but they were all extroverts too, so of course were never around. Different strokes for different folks. I love open offices and wouldn’t go back to closed ones if given the choice. I also have difficulty WFH for the same reasons. More employers should offer more choices, as everyone is different and what suits one worker might be awful for another.
- bluGill 7y ago
  If you have an office environment you should NEVER have an open office policy. The extroverts who like interaction/interruptions won't be in their office in the first place, while those who hate it need their door closed.
- amluto 7y ago
  At one point I had an office that I shared with a couple other people. I had shelves, blackboards, and a couple people to talk to. Outside the office was common space. It was great! Downside: the arrangement was likely quite expensive.
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  As a thought experiment, imagine that a company offered each employee a choice - a private work area or a cacophonous open bullpen. You and I both know that 90% of the employees would choose the private work areas, and all five of you “extroverts” would move into the open area. What we have is an extremely tiny minority forcing their preferences on everybody else, not caring much about the negative impact. Of course, we also all know that open offices are about surveillance and saving a few dollars (on paper) and not about collaboration anyway.
- bachmeier 7y ago
  > Just to get the alternate view out there too This always comes up in these discussions. Extroverts say they prefer the open office format because they can talk to others. That's nice and all, but shouldn't you be working rather than satisfying your desire to talk to others? (The same goes for workers not in an open office not playing on HN all day.)
  - ericwood 7y ago
    It's not necessarily just to idly chat with other people, but has more to do with where you get your energy. I find I'm most productive and energized when surrounded by other people. Conversation is a part of it, and the ability to collaborate on the fly is great. If I'm heads down on something it's fine to be isolated every so often, but if it's for more than a few days my energy level is sunk and my productivity actually decreases dramatically.
    - slavapestov 7y ago
      Socializing is great, but maybe you can find an outlet for that outside of work?
      - ericwood 7y ago
        What I'm saying is that it goes beyond socializing; if I'm cut off from other people and heads-down all the time I get depressed and it's counter-productive. I socialize plenty outside of work, but I am happiest and most productive at when I can feed off other people's energy. It's a balance, though, and overstimulation is still an issue, and I need periods of quiet and concentration like anyone else.
    - agentultra 7y ago
      I get it and I totally appreciate my extrovert colleagues. I think the ability to have both is good. Sometimes I do like to work with others. It's just that often open-plan offices are an all-or-nothing affair. It's a weird way to construct a space for people to work and collaborate given how different we all are.
- MockObject 7y ago
  I'm an extreme extrovert, and I despise open plan offices, because my productivity doesn't involve the social interaction I enjoy so much. When I'm in the Zone, I have no such desires. On the other hand, I favor pair programming. But even then, it should be done in two-person offices with a door, not in cacophanous cafeterias.
LanceH 7y ago
I understand you're joking about Agile, but the previous holy path was waterfall, which was a hideously expensive way to get to failure.
- praptak 7y ago
  Except that Waterfall was never really advocated: https://davesquared.net/2008/01/contentious-myth-of-waterfall.html https://davesquared.net/2008/01/contentious-myth-of-waterfal... It was conceived as a straw man which was being dissed so vigorously that people started believing it was real.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > Except that Waterfall was never really advocated I've heard countless people advocate for waterfall. I was formally taught waterfall years ago. It was how many people approached development for a long time, and how some people still approach it today. Here's just one concrete example I could find in seconds - an article from 2006 advocating for its benefits https://www.techrepublic.com/article/understanding-the-pros-and-cons-of-the-waterfall-model-of-software-development/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/understanding-the-pros-....
    - FanaHOVA 7y ago
      Still being taught in school; my CS program in Rome had it as one of the "software engineering methods" chapters, it was part of the finals curriculum and everything.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    > It was conceived as a straw man which was being dissed so vigorously that people started believing it was real. So much this. I've been in the industry for about 30 years, and I've never once seen a place that used a methodology that could be called "waterfall" as described by many agile proponents.
    - LanceH 7y ago
collyw 7y ago
The best situation I had was two in an office (it was an academic institution just being started and there was plently of space at the time). One other person means company if you both want to chat, and generally silence when you need to get stuff done. As the institute grew I think they squeezed 5 people into tHe same office. Which meant random informal meetings appearing frequently. My productivity plumeted.

ryandrake 7y ago

Just to get the alternate view out there too: I had an office once with a door that closed. As an extrovert it was awful. I felt lonely all day. The only way to get any human contact besides email and text was to leave and go walk the halls or find some common area. I ended up pretty much never using it and instead worked from the break room. From time to time they’d give me an officemate to share the office, but they were all extroverts too, so of course were never around. Different strokes for different folks. I love open offices and wouldn’t go back to closed ones if given the choice. I also have difficulty WFH for the same reasons. More employers should offer more choices, as everyone is different and what suits one worker might be awful for another.

bluGill 7y ago
If you have an office environment you should NEVER have an open office policy. The extroverts who like interaction/interruptions won't be in their office in the first place, while those who hate it need their door closed.
amluto 7y ago
At one point I had an office that I shared with a couple other people. I had shelves, blackboards, and a couple people to talk to. Outside the office was common space. It was great! Downside: the arrangement was likely quite expensive.
commandlinefan 7y ago
As a thought experiment, imagine that a company offered each employee a choice - a private work area or a cacophonous open bullpen. You and I both know that 90% of the employees would choose the private work areas, and all five of you “extroverts” would move into the open area. What we have is an extremely tiny minority forcing their preferences on everybody else, not caring much about the negative impact. Of course, we also all know that open offices are about surveillance and saving a few dollars (on paper) and not about collaboration anyway.
bachmeier 7y ago
> Just to get the alternate view out there too This always comes up in these discussions. Extroverts say they prefer the open office format because they can talk to others. That's nice and all, but shouldn't you be working rather than satisfying your desire to talk to others? (The same goes for workers not in an open office not playing on HN all day.)
- ericwood 7y ago
  It's not necessarily just to idly chat with other people, but has more to do with where you get your energy. I find I'm most productive and energized when surrounded by other people. Conversation is a part of it, and the ability to collaborate on the fly is great. If I'm heads down on something it's fine to be isolated every so often, but if it's for more than a few days my energy level is sunk and my productivity actually decreases dramatically.
  - slavapestov 7y ago
    Socializing is great, but maybe you can find an outlet for that outside of work?
    - ericwood 7y ago
      What I'm saying is that it goes beyond socializing; if I'm cut off from other people and heads-down all the time I get depressed and it's counter-productive. I socialize plenty outside of work, but I am happiest and most productive at when I can feed off other people's energy. It's a balance, though, and overstimulation is still an issue, and I need periods of quiet and concentration like anyone else.
  - agentultra 7y ago
    I get it and I totally appreciate my extrovert colleagues. I think the ability to have both is good. Sometimes I do like to work with others. It's just that often open-plan offices are an all-or-nothing affair. It's a weird way to construct a space for people to work and collaborate given how different we all are.
MockObject 7y ago
I'm an extreme extrovert, and I despise open plan offices, because my productivity doesn't involve the social interaction I enjoy so much. When I'm in the Zone, I have no such desires. On the other hand, I favor pair programming. But even then, it should be done in two-person offices with a door, not in cacophanous cafeterias.

LanceH 7y ago

I understand you're joking about Agile, but the previous holy path was waterfall, which was a hideously expensive way to get to failure.

praptak 7y ago
Except that Waterfall was never really advocated: https://davesquared.net/2008/01/contentious-myth-of-waterfall.html https://davesquared.net/2008/01/contentious-myth-of-waterfal... It was conceived as a straw man which was being dissed so vigorously that people started believing it was real.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > Except that Waterfall was never really advocated I've heard countless people advocate for waterfall. I was formally taught waterfall years ago. It was how many people approached development for a long time, and how some people still approach it today. Here's just one concrete example I could find in seconds - an article from 2006 advocating for its benefits https://www.techrepublic.com/article/understanding-the-pros-and-cons-of-the-waterfall-model-of-software-development/ https://www.techrepublic.com/article/understanding-the-pros-....
  - FanaHOVA 7y ago
    Still being taught in school; my CS program in Rome had it as one of the "software engineering methods" chapters, it was part of the finals curriculum and everything.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > It was conceived as a straw man which was being dissed so vigorously that people started believing it was real. So much this. I've been in the industry for about 30 years, and I've never once seen a place that used a methodology that could be called "waterfall" as described by many agile proponents.
  - LanceH 7y ago

collyw 7y ago

The best situation I had was two in an office (it was an academic institution just being started and there was plently of space at the time). One other person means company if you both want to chat, and generally silence when you need to get stuff done. As the institute grew I think they squeezed 5 people into tHe same office. Which meant random informal meetings appearing frequently. My productivity plumeted.