4 ms·

In my opinion, the reason why small-wheel (wheel diameter ~6 in / 15 cm) e-scooters are dangerous, is their small wheels. The front wheel can suddenly stop on a

In my opinion, the reason why small-wheel (wheel diameter ~6 in / 15 cm) e-scooters are dangerous, is their small wheels. The front wheel can suddenly stop on a a pothole, crack, storm drain, curb, etc, and the rider's momentum will fling them headfirst into the ground. I do recall reading some reports that if the front brake locks up, the same can happen, but I don't know if the risk of that is greater than on a bicycle. (edit: bad metric conversion)

abawany 7y ago
Saw it happen once in Austin: one moment person was sailing along a bike lane and next moment it was pivot over the handlebars due to a pothole. They had to call an ambulance and I believe he experienced considerable damage on the face and front teeth.
nkrisc 7y ago
As well, the pivot point on the front wheel of a scooter is much further from your center of mass than on a bike, so you're going to go over much easier. The same can absolutely happen on a bike, but in my experience you need to be going much faster (or be much heavier) than on a scooter for the reason I mentioned above.
mdorazio 7y ago
It's worse than just small wheels, too. Most e-scooters have rigid wheels rather than air-filled ones, so the issue is compounded since the wheel can't deform enough to deal with bumps. This is one of the reasons I've stopped riding e-scooters in favor of bikes - after the third time having to dump the scooter and almost falling on my face because it hit a half-inch lip or pothole, I decided there are better methods of getting around.
- hannasanarion 7y ago
  Since when do most e-scooters have solid tires? Many of them have solid tires available as replacements, but they ship with pneumatic tires.
  - mdorazio 7y ago
    Every Bird, Lime, and Jump scooter I've ridden has had solid rubber tires.
throwaway_tech 7y ago
That happened to me about 20 years ago on a gas powered goped from a sidewalk crack where one slab was slightly raised due to some tree roots. I had a serious helmet which cracked on impact, to this day I swear I would be dead from that impact without the helmet. That experience (and I suppose being a lawyer who constantly thinks about liability) makes me hope all these companies fail. 1) I don't like the "littering" of scooters all over city sidewalks/bike paths (that is dangerous in and of itself and should be illegal); and 2) renting these things without helmets I think goes well beyond negligence.
- hannasanarion 7y ago
  If you're mad about space being wasted by electric scooters being dropped all over town, just wait til you hear about these nasty things called "cars"!
  - throwaway_tech 7y ago
    I've never had car purposely park (or park period) on the sidewalks and bike paths where I am running. These scooter companies, at least in my city, will collect and dump their scooters on the busiest sidewalks and bike paths (blocking the entire walkway and path) for the sole purpose of free advertising to large groups of runners/bikers. Its not about "space being wasted" in fact it is the opposite, it is not just obnoxious and illegal in many cases, it is dangerous. I have seen multiple runners and bikers collide with these things. I can't just start dumping ATM machines, vending machines or billboards on public walkways/bike paths, why should these scooter companies get to do that?
dkarl 7y ago
You are right about the wheels. When a big cycling charity ride — thousands of people — crosses railroad tracks at an angle, there are always multiple people who catch a wheel in the tracks and take a spill. For bike wheels you need that special condition of a narrow groove the right size, but for the tiny wheels on the older scooters, it's much easier for almost any angled imperfection in the pavement to grab your wheel or simply knock you off balance if you don't take care to hit it right. Anecdotally, it's something you have to be constantly aware of on imperfect city streets, and I took a bad spill when I hit something on the street that I didn't see in the dark. That said... the biggest danger is always collisions with cars, which is the same danger you face on a bike, and the danger the article concentrates on. I almost got hit on my bike by a car turning right across the bike lane just yesterday, and the outcome was a matter of luck, not a matter of what vehicle I was on. The article mentions the "Three E’s of Traffic Safety: engineering, enforcement, and education" and I think we need more of all three. The driver who almost hit me (I caught up to him and spoke to him) was an older man who looked to be from out of town and probably had no idea he needed to check his blind spot when turning right, because that simply wasn't a thing until the advent of bike lanes, not when he was learning to drive and maybe still not in the town or city where he lives. EDIT: You're also right about braking. The wheels skid easier than bike wheels, and it's harder to keep your weight back and down so the braking force gets transferred to your body.
- anonymou2 7y ago
  The danger is actually the bike lane, because it puts you in the drivers blind spot, that kind of accident is so common it even has a name, it is called right hook (in right driving countries). It is easy to learn to avoid collisions with cars while driving a bicycle, one of the main lessons is do not ride on the bike lane, specially in intersections you should be in front of the other driver not on its side.
  - hannasanarion 7y ago
    This is only true for poorly designed intersections where an unprotected bike lane abruptly terminates and mixes with traffic. There are many intersection and lane designs that make right hook crashes nearly impossible.
fencepost 7y ago
A couple years ago at least one of the scooter rental companies had larger-wheel (12"?) scooters in San Diego, not sure if they still do. Didn't get to try one since they seemed to be concentrated around downtown (where I wasn't), but they I'd expect them to have a better ride and be safer.
mikestew 7y ago
I do recall reading some reports that if the front brake locks up, the same can happen On any single-track vehicle (bicycle, motorcycle, scooter), if the front wheel quits spinning, the overwhelming odds are that the vehicle will be lying on its side very soon. Very skilled and very experience riders can overcome this, but don't rely on it. I've seen professional racers lock a front wheel and keep going. I've done it once myself on a motorcycle (don't care to ever have to it again, because there was a lot of luck involved). Bicycle, different story for me. I've locked the front racing, and on slick pavement. Pretty sure I went down each time. I haven't lock the front on any of my scooters, and I'd rather keep it that way. Which is why ABS is so great on motorcycles: squeeze that lever with all your might, and let the computer sort it out.
troydavis 7y ago
I agree. Razor’s “EcoStand“ scooters are the most bump-resistant ride I’ve found. It has very large pneumatic wheels: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2hy722hf0R/ https://www.instagram.com/p/B2hy722hf0R/ They’re roughly twice the diameter of most scooters and feel more like a folding bike. At least as of December 2019, it’s only available through their rental service, not for purchase.

abawany 7y ago

Saw it happen once in Austin: one moment person was sailing along a bike lane and next moment it was pivot over the handlebars due to a pothole. They had to call an ambulance and I believe he experienced considerable damage on the face and front teeth.

nkrisc 7y ago

As well, the pivot point on the front wheel of a scooter is much further from your center of mass than on a bike, so you're going to go over much easier. The same can absolutely happen on a bike, but in my experience you need to be going much faster (or be much heavier) than on a scooter for the reason I mentioned above.

mdorazio 7y ago

It's worse than just small wheels, too. Most e-scooters have rigid wheels rather than air-filled ones, so the issue is compounded since the wheel can't deform enough to deal with bumps. This is one of the reasons I've stopped riding e-scooters in favor of bikes - after the third time having to dump the scooter and almost falling on my face because it hit a half-inch lip or pothole, I decided there are better methods of getting around.

hannasanarion 7y ago
Since when do most e-scooters have solid tires? Many of them have solid tires available as replacements, but they ship with pneumatic tires.
- mdorazio 7y ago
  Every Bird, Lime, and Jump scooter I've ridden has had solid rubber tires.

throwaway_tech 7y ago

That happened to me about 20 years ago on a gas powered goped from a sidewalk crack where one slab was slightly raised due to some tree roots. I had a serious helmet which cracked on impact, to this day I swear I would be dead from that impact without the helmet. That experience (and I suppose being a lawyer who constantly thinks about liability) makes me hope all these companies fail. 1) I don't like the "littering" of scooters all over city sidewalks/bike paths (that is dangerous in and of itself and should be illegal); and 2) renting these things without helmets I think goes well beyond negligence.

hannasanarion 7y ago
If you're mad about space being wasted by electric scooters being dropped all over town, just wait til you hear about these nasty things called "cars"!
- throwaway_tech 7y ago
  I've never had car purposely park (or park period) on the sidewalks and bike paths where I am running. These scooter companies, at least in my city, will collect and dump their scooters on the busiest sidewalks and bike paths (blocking the entire walkway and path) for the sole purpose of free advertising to large groups of runners/bikers. Its not about "space being wasted" in fact it is the opposite, it is not just obnoxious and illegal in many cases, it is dangerous. I have seen multiple runners and bikers collide with these things. I can't just start dumping ATM machines, vending machines or billboards on public walkways/bike paths, why should these scooter companies get to do that?

dkarl 7y ago

You are right about the wheels. When a big cycling charity ride — thousands of people — crosses railroad tracks at an angle, there are always multiple people who catch a wheel in the tracks and take a spill. For bike wheels you need that special condition of a narrow groove the right size, but for the tiny wheels on the older scooters, it's much easier for almost any angled imperfection in the pavement to grab your wheel or simply knock you off balance if you don't take care to hit it right. Anecdotally, it's something you have to be constantly aware of on imperfect city streets, and I took a bad spill when I hit something on the street that I didn't see in the dark. That said... the biggest danger is always collisions with cars, which is the same danger you face on a bike, and the danger the article concentrates on. I almost got hit on my bike by a car turning right across the bike lane just yesterday, and the outcome was a matter of luck, not a matter of what vehicle I was on. The article mentions the "Three E’s of Traffic Safety: engineering, enforcement, and education" and I think we need more of all three. The driver who almost hit me (I caught up to him and spoke to him) was an older man who looked to be from out of town and probably had no idea he needed to check his blind spot when turning right, because that simply wasn't a thing until the advent of bike lanes, not when he was learning to drive and maybe still not in the town or city where he lives. EDIT: You're also right about braking. The wheels skid easier than bike wheels, and it's harder to keep your weight back and down so the braking force gets transferred to your body.

anonymou2 7y ago
The danger is actually the bike lane, because it puts you in the drivers blind spot, that kind of accident is so common it even has a name, it is called right hook (in right driving countries). It is easy to learn to avoid collisions with cars while driving a bicycle, one of the main lessons is do not ride on the bike lane, specially in intersections you should be in front of the other driver not on its side.
- hannasanarion 7y ago
  This is only true for poorly designed intersections where an unprotected bike lane abruptly terminates and mixes with traffic. There are many intersection and lane designs that make right hook crashes nearly impossible.

fencepost 7y ago

A couple years ago at least one of the scooter rental companies had larger-wheel (12"?) scooters in San Diego, not sure if they still do. Didn't get to try one since they seemed to be concentrated around downtown (where I wasn't), but they I'd expect them to have a better ride and be safer.

mikestew 7y ago

I do recall reading some reports that if the front brake locks up, the same can happen On any single-track vehicle (bicycle, motorcycle, scooter), if the front wheel quits spinning, the overwhelming odds are that the vehicle will be lying on its side very soon. Very skilled and very experience riders can overcome this, but don't rely on it. I've seen professional racers lock a front wheel and keep going. I've done it once myself on a motorcycle (don't care to ever have to it again, because there was a lot of luck involved). Bicycle, different story for me. I've locked the front racing, and on slick pavement. Pretty sure I went down each time. I haven't lock the front on any of my scooters, and I'd rather keep it that way. Which is why ABS is so great on motorcycles: squeeze that lever with all your might, and let the computer sort it out.

troydavis 7y ago

I agree. Razor’s “EcoStand“ scooters are the most bump-resistant ride I’ve found. It has very large pneumatic wheels: https://www.instagram.com/p/B2hy722hf0R/ https://www.instagram.com/p/B2hy722hf0R/ They’re roughly twice the diameter of most scooters and feel more like a folding bike. At least as of December 2019, it’s only available through their rental service, not for purchase.