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> Another huge advantage Kotlin has over Scala is tooling, which is basically all thanks to an IDE company creating the language. Tooling will never fall behind

> Another huge advantage Kotlin has over Scala is tooling, which is basically all thanks to an IDE company creating the language. Tooling will never fall behind because they are in the business of selling tools. Not sure I'd agree with this. Kotlin's ties to JetBrains means that you're basically hosed if you don't use IntelliJ. Scala's tooling works pretty much everywhere (LSP/Metals, ENSIME, IntelliJ, Eclipse/Scala-IDE).

giggles_giggles 7y ago
ENSIME was abandoned several years ago because the maintainer felt bullied[1] and LSP/Metals has a ways to go. [1] https://medium.com/@fommil/hide-your-real-name-in-open-source-3d67e74a8c56 https://medium.com/@fommil/hide-your-real-name-in-open-sourc...
The_Colonel 7y ago
> Scala's tooling works pretty much everywhere (LSP/Metals, ENSIME, IntelliJ, Eclipse/Scala-IDE). Scala's tooling also pretty much sucks everywhere (interestingly the least sucking IDE for Scala is guess what ... Intellij!)
- Nullabillity 7y ago
  > Scala's tooling also pretty much sucks everywhere (interestingly the least sucking IDE for Scala is guess what ... Intellij!) In your opinion. Personally I almost get depressed when I have to switch from Emacs+Metals to Android Studio for Kotlin stuff.
- mbo 7y ago
  It's improved in the last year or so. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I find that it's one of the better supported languages out there, second to of course Java/Kotlin/TypeScript/C#.
- lmm 7y ago
  In my experience IntelliJ is a bad Scala IDE. While it has lots of cool advanced features, none of them make up for not being able to compile the basic language accurately: what good is an IDE where I can't 100% rely on getting a red underline for invalid code and no red underlines for valid code? The parts where IntelliJ has always fallen down on Scala seem to be precisely the parts that are missing from Kotlin. I can't help feeling that the JetBrains team just "doesn't get" higher-kinded types at all. Which is a shame, because there is a lot of good stuff in Kotlin otherwise.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    And naturally now they have a vested interest that Kotlin experience just feels better than Scala anyway.

giggles_giggles 7y ago

ENSIME was abandoned several years ago because the maintainer felt bullied[1] and LSP/Metals has a ways to go. [1] https://medium.com/@fommil/hide-your-real-name-in-open-source-3d67e74a8c56 https://medium.com/@fommil/hide-your-real-name-in-open-sourc...

The_Colonel 7y ago

> Scala's tooling works pretty much everywhere (LSP/Metals, ENSIME, IntelliJ, Eclipse/Scala-IDE). Scala's tooling also pretty much sucks everywhere (interestingly the least sucking IDE for Scala is guess what ... Intellij!)

Nullabillity 7y ago
> Scala's tooling also pretty much sucks everywhere (interestingly the least sucking IDE for Scala is guess what ... Intellij!) In your opinion. Personally I almost get depressed when I have to switch from Emacs+Metals to Android Studio for Kotlin stuff.
mbo 7y ago
It's improved in the last year or so. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I find that it's one of the better supported languages out there, second to of course Java/Kotlin/TypeScript/C#.
lmm 7y ago
In my experience IntelliJ is a bad Scala IDE. While it has lots of cool advanced features, none of them make up for not being able to compile the basic language accurately: what good is an IDE where I can't 100% rely on getting a red underline for invalid code and no red underlines for valid code? The parts where IntelliJ has always fallen down on Scala seem to be precisely the parts that are missing from Kotlin. I can't help feeling that the JetBrains team just "doesn't get" higher-kinded types at all. Which is a shame, because there is a lot of good stuff in Kotlin otherwise.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  And naturally now they have a vested interest that Kotlin experience just feels better than Scala anyway.