6 ms·

Never mind, I have no idea what Apple is doing. It looks like they're inventing yet another shading language. https://webkit.org/blog/9528/webgpu-and-wsl-in-sa

Never mind, I have no idea what Apple is doing. It looks like they're inventing yet another shading language. https://webkit.org/blog/9528/webgpu-and-wsl-in-safari/ https://webkit.org/blog/9528/webgpu-and-wsl-in-safari/

shmerl 7y ago
That's what I thought. They still want to sabotage SPIR-V usage in the browser.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Yeah, that is why the only working WebGPU implementation for Chrome, from Google, only works on the Mac and Windows platforms, using Metal and DirectX, your favourite APIs.
  - shmerl 7y ago
    In Chrome may be, but that's not Apple's browser. And on iOS that won't work already, due to Apple's anti-competitive ban on browser engines that aren't theirs. And if anything - those are your favorite APIs. You always flame (like a shill) about how lock-in is good for developers.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      It is quite clear from all our discussions that you have zero experience on how things roll in the games industry. If you feel good calling everyone, with experience, a shill because we don't buy your Quixotic battle against the man, so be it. By the way, by law Apple can do whatever they feel like it.
      - shmerl 7y ago
        Who "we"? Your bosses who pay you for the shill work of whitewashing lock-in? No one is buying your koolaid of "lock-in is good" and using lock-in thinking its locking limitations are beneficial.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Those with actual experience in games industry, in whatever way. IGDA members, attending GDC, going to PAX, local indie games conventions, having been inside AAA studios, knowing names in the industry, meetups at local games design university. As for the rest, whatever man.
        shmerl 7y ago
        You keep avoiding actual subjects in the discussion while making flamebait posts. That is demagoguery and flaming at best or trolling at worst. Don't waste other people's time.
        dang 7y ago
        Please don't feed flamewars on HN, even when another commenter is wrong and/or you feel provoked. It helps nothing. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Ok, I will act accordingly.
    - dang 7y ago
      You crossed into personal attack repeatedly in this thread, as well as breaking the site guidelines by making insinuations about shilling/astroturfing. We ban users who do these things. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the spirit of this site when posting here? We'd be grateful.
      - shmerl 7y ago
        The person who I was responding to started it, and I view it as a trolling behavior. I'll avoid responding to him to follow the guidelines, but you should focus on the one who started it. Having an individual block function could be useful, to simply filter our comments by such user.
        dang 7y ago
        It always feels like the other person started it. Maybe their behavior was egregious and I missed it (we don't come close to seeing all the posts here), but even in that case, we need you to stick to the guidelines no matter how badly another commenter behaves.
  - giornogiovanna 7y ago
    I'm getting some serious déjà vu here. Anyway, pjmlp, if you have some time, could you please explain how WSL makes sense in a world where SPIR-V already exists? Both are intended mainly to be compiler targets, and both will need verifiers for use in WebGPU. The main advantages of SPIR-V are that some tooling already exists (as opposed to none), most of the specification is already done, and it will end up being faster with Vulkan. The only advantage I've seen for WSL is that it's text-based, so you can cut and paste pieces of code together more easily. I don't know how that would even fit in with the idea that WSL is meant to be a compiler target, though.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      WSL also has some tooling, in Safari. Given that Vulkan is only a viable option on post Android 10 devices, Linux and unsandboxed Win32 apps, being faster with Vulkan is a relative merit. Now, if SPIR-V is part of the browser and does not require to bundle a JIT compiler, as apparently has been discussed then great. Then again, maybe some tooling besides shaderc would be welcomed.

shmerl 7y ago

That's what I thought. They still want to sabotage SPIR-V usage in the browser.

pjmlp 7y ago
Yeah, that is why the only working WebGPU implementation for Chrome, from Google, only works on the Mac and Windows platforms, using Metal and DirectX, your favourite APIs.
- shmerl 7y ago
  In Chrome may be, but that's not Apple's browser. And on iOS that won't work already, due to Apple's anti-competitive ban on browser engines that aren't theirs. And if anything - those are your favorite APIs. You always flame (like a shill) about how lock-in is good for developers.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    It is quite clear from all our discussions that you have zero experience on how things roll in the games industry. If you feel good calling everyone, with experience, a shill because we don't buy your Quixotic battle against the man, so be it. By the way, by law Apple can do whatever they feel like it.
    - shmerl 7y ago
      Who "we"? Your bosses who pay you for the shill work of whitewashing lock-in? No one is buying your koolaid of "lock-in is good" and using lock-in thinking its locking limitations are beneficial.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Those with actual experience in games industry, in whatever way. IGDA members, attending GDC, going to PAX, local indie games conventions, having been inside AAA studios, knowing names in the industry, meetups at local games design university. As for the rest, whatever man.
        shmerl 7y ago
        You keep avoiding actual subjects in the discussion while making flamebait posts. That is demagoguery and flaming at best or trolling at worst. Don't waste other people's time.
        dang 7y ago
        Please don't feed flamewars on HN, even when another commenter is wrong and/or you feel provoked. It helps nothing. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        pjmlp 7y ago
        Ok, I will act accordingly.
  - dang 7y ago
    You crossed into personal attack repeatedly in this thread, as well as breaking the site guidelines by making insinuations about shilling/astroturfing. We ban users who do these things. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the spirit of this site when posting here? We'd be grateful.
    - shmerl 7y ago
      The person who I was responding to started it, and I view it as a trolling behavior. I'll avoid responding to him to follow the guidelines, but you should focus on the one who started it. Having an individual block function could be useful, to simply filter our comments by such user.
      - dang 7y ago
        It always feels like the other person started it. Maybe their behavior was egregious and I missed it (we don't come close to seeing all the posts here), but even in that case, we need you to stick to the guidelines no matter how badly another commenter behaves.
- giornogiovanna 7y ago
  I'm getting some serious déjà vu here. Anyway, pjmlp, if you have some time, could you please explain how WSL makes sense in a world where SPIR-V already exists? Both are intended mainly to be compiler targets, and both will need verifiers for use in WebGPU. The main advantages of SPIR-V are that some tooling already exists (as opposed to none), most of the specification is already done, and it will end up being faster with Vulkan. The only advantage I've seen for WSL is that it's text-based, so you can cut and paste pieces of code together more easily. I don't know how that would even fit in with the idea that WSL is meant to be a compiler target, though.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    WSL also has some tooling, in Safari. Given that Vulkan is only a viable option on post Android 10 devices, Linux and unsandboxed Win32 apps, being faster with Vulkan is a relative merit. Now, if SPIR-V is part of the browser and does not require to bundle a JIT compiler, as apparently has been discussed then great. Then again, maybe some tooling besides shaderc would be welcomed.