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> A lot of working with an ERP is developing middleware or custom modules that implement business-specific logic Indeed. It does, however, seem that these are

> A lot of working with an ERP is developing middleware or custom modules that implement business-specific logic Indeed. It does, however, seem that these are developed on a system that isn't designed to intuitively express the degree of logic required - or even trivial logic. There are poor souls slogging through whichever level of hell uses SAP for customer relations, purely because that's the way it's done. That attitude worked out poorly for taxis, who's shitty UX was replaced by Uber. I predict that millennials, who increasingly refuse to interact with anything below "app quality," won't bother with this horseshit. There will be fewer and fewer willing to subject themselves to that awful software, as developers, and everyone will build their own faulty but usable ERP systems. ERP will be a unicorn in the next decade. The industry is ridden with complacent dinosaurs.

tomnipotent 7y ago
> developed on a system that isn't designed to intuitively express the degree of logic required The poor souls are such because they usually fundamentally do not have the knowledge required across the broad spectrum of responsibilities an ERP does and how that all ties into managing a business. > I predict that millennials, who increasingly refuse to interact with anything below "app quality," This makes no sense. What do millennials have to do with anything? I fail to see how a generation label makes any difference to how ERPs are involved in business management and how accounting and finance in general work. How supply chains are managed isn't going to change because of a bunch of woke millennials. > everyone will build their own faulty but usable ERP systems. Always said by people that do not understand what an ERP does and the complexities involved in managing a business. I used to think this way myself, until I actually had to deal with these issues in a senior management position with investors breathing down my neck. My naivety was amusing in hindsight.
- ethbro 7y ago
  > How supply chains are managed isn't going to change because of a bunch of woke millennials. Parent's point was that systems require trained and capable people. If the job entails dealing with something arcane, and you can't pay more (because cost center), then at some point you face a labor gap.
  - tomnipotent 7y ago
    I can't see this happening any more than mechanics influencing how engines are designed. It sounds nice to rah-rah-rah the revolution, but ERPs are the dark underbelly of business are not going away any time soon while we depend on the 3 statement model.
mmcgaha 7y ago
To give you an idea about the real scope of what is behind an ERP system, here is a link to the database definitions behind QAD's MFG/Pro: https://documentlibrary.qad.com/documents/2370665/2368142/DatabaseDefinitions_TR_v2012_1EE.pdf https://documentlibrary.qad.com/documents/2370665/2368142/Da... This is a product designed for small to medium sized businesses so it is not as comprehensive as a SAP. Take a serious look at the schema and imagine if you just had to write CRUD, it would take hundreds of man years. But it is not a CRUD app because there is business logic behind ever module. Now imagine that there is also a whole ecosystem of vendors that sit under the QAD tree to provide niche solutions for the various use cases not covered by QAD. So not only do you have to write the ERP, but you have to write the pieces picked up by the other vendors in this ecosystem.
- ants_a 7y ago
  Is this supposed to pass as documentation? Looking at that document the first reaction is that I would rather spend a decade implementing my own ERP than go anywhere near that mess.
  - mmcgaha 7y ago
    I get that a list of tables and fields is not great documentation by itself, but QAD also provides ERD diagrams, implementation guides, user guides, administrative guides, and other documents. The overall quality of their documentation is outstanding. I worked in a QAD shop for over ten years, and their documentation is complete, accurate, well organized, and easy to understand.
- tripzilch 7y ago
  This looks ... terrible. I bet it works and delivers value or something, but that doesn't mean it's something to be proud of or to defend how it's designed. I mean surely there is a better way than thousands of database tables ... with separate business logic. Do I understand correctly that for a "small to medium" business, they would only use a fraction of the functionality / database tables, but in order to support all potential "small to medium" businesses, it needs to be this convoluted mess?
funcDropShadow 7y ago
Well, "app quality", you mean those shiny UIs with abysmal usability. Because usability is more about the behavior of a syste m then removal of button edges. ERP and SAP is definetely neither sexy nor hipp nor woke nor does it have an even acceptable usability, but it doesn't have to. It has to help making money. And that's a business, as tough as they come.

tomnipotent 7y ago

> developed on a system that isn't designed to intuitively express the degree of logic required The poor souls are such because they usually fundamentally do not have the knowledge required across the broad spectrum of responsibilities an ERP does and how that all ties into managing a business. > I predict that millennials, who increasingly refuse to interact with anything below "app quality," This makes no sense. What do millennials have to do with anything? I fail to see how a generation label makes any difference to how ERPs are involved in business management and how accounting and finance in general work. How supply chains are managed isn't going to change because of a bunch of woke millennials. > everyone will build their own faulty but usable ERP systems. Always said by people that do not understand what an ERP does and the complexities involved in managing a business. I used to think this way myself, until I actually had to deal with these issues in a senior management position with investors breathing down my neck. My naivety was amusing in hindsight.

ethbro 7y ago
> How supply chains are managed isn't going to change because of a bunch of woke millennials. Parent's point was that systems require trained and capable people. If the job entails dealing with something arcane, and you can't pay more (because cost center), then at some point you face a labor gap.
- tomnipotent 7y ago
  I can't see this happening any more than mechanics influencing how engines are designed. It sounds nice to rah-rah-rah the revolution, but ERPs are the dark underbelly of business are not going away any time soon while we depend on the 3 statement model.

mmcgaha 7y ago

To give you an idea about the real scope of what is behind an ERP system, here is a link to the database definitions behind QAD's MFG/Pro: https://documentlibrary.qad.com/documents/2370665/2368142/DatabaseDefinitions_TR_v2012_1EE.pdf https://documentlibrary.qad.com/documents/2370665/2368142/Da... This is a product designed for small to medium sized businesses so it is not as comprehensive as a SAP. Take a serious look at the schema and imagine if you just had to write CRUD, it would take hundreds of man years. But it is not a CRUD app because there is business logic behind ever module. Now imagine that there is also a whole ecosystem of vendors that sit under the QAD tree to provide niche solutions for the various use cases not covered by QAD. So not only do you have to write the ERP, but you have to write the pieces picked up by the other vendors in this ecosystem.

ants_a 7y ago
Is this supposed to pass as documentation? Looking at that document the first reaction is that I would rather spend a decade implementing my own ERP than go anywhere near that mess.
- mmcgaha 7y ago
  I get that a list of tables and fields is not great documentation by itself, but QAD also provides ERD diagrams, implementation guides, user guides, administrative guides, and other documents. The overall quality of their documentation is outstanding. I worked in a QAD shop for over ten years, and their documentation is complete, accurate, well organized, and easy to understand.
tripzilch 7y ago
This looks ... terrible. I bet it works and delivers value or something, but that doesn't mean it's something to be proud of or to defend how it's designed. I mean surely there is a better way than thousands of database tables ... with separate business logic. Do I understand correctly that for a "small to medium" business, they would only use a fraction of the functionality / database tables, but in order to support all potential "small to medium" businesses, it needs to be this convoluted mess?

funcDropShadow 7y ago

Well, "app quality", you mean those shiny UIs with abysmal usability. Because usability is more about the behavior of a syste m then removal of button edges. ERP and SAP is definetely neither sexy nor hipp nor woke nor does it have an even acceptable usability, but it doesn't have to. It has to help making money. And that's a business, as tough as they come.