7 ms·

I agree that it was a very important process but what are the parallels with today? I think the current situation is more like 1920s and 1930s.

epicureanideal 7y ago
I'd be interested to hear in what ways you think it's similar to the 1920s and 1930s.
- i_haz_rabies 7y ago
  Fraying alliances, inequality, out-of-date military doctrines, increasing American isolationism, increasing polarization, rising fascism, tension in Europe, tension in East Asia, tension between established powers and new powers...
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  I think in the 1920s you saw a decay of established institutions, recession and consequently the rise of populists like the nazis. I think it’s very similar to that right now. A lot of people think that the system is not working for them anymore. That leaves an opening for strong leaders that explain everything by blaming problems on “others”. You see that with trump and also a lot of countries in Europe. Yalta was about rebuilding a world system. Right now we have to be careful about existing systems falling apart.
  - redis_mlc 7y ago
    > I think in the 1920s you saw a decay of established institutions, ... No. The inter-war period was just a lull, as Germany was not occupied and did not feel defeated. The onerous reparations actually incentived Germany to re-ignite WW1 into WW2. Britain and France might as well have asked for it. > A lot of people think that the system is not working for them anymore. Rulers don't care about people, especially Trump. Study the de Vos appointment to understand how profoundly an oligarch he is.
    - Spooky23 7y ago
      There’s more to it than just Germany. The postwar disillusionment with the old order and the boom/bust was amplified by things like radio and telephone. The world moved faster, and that brought good and bad things. That’s what worries me... our institutions haven’t caught up with the internet.
    - Ididntdothis 7y ago
      Germany had hyperinflation and very unstable government. It was a bad time until hitler said “make Germany great again”.
baybal2 7y ago
America made an overnight U-turn from the existing international community, which lead to creation of a new one. Both NATO and the gradual decline of European major powers post-war was a result of that. NATO coming to existence, and its initial strength was in many reasons due to Western European power fears that US may turn back on them too eventually. The timidity of Western Europe on the global stage in that time period was also a result of them ceding primacy on the world stage to US.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  The complete collapse of government in continental Europe immediately after WW2 along with the breakdown of social order likely had a lot to do with that.
  - baybal2 7y ago
    Sure that's the case too, but most of Western Europe was spared a complete devastation, unlike Central and Eastern Europe. A lot of them resumed their colonial ambitions, and small time squabbles within few years after the war, but they never resumed them in a way they did before WWII, and never tried to challenge US primacy. They were very conscious of American reservations. Back in the early cold war, NATO was coming with a lot more of strings attached from US, with former great powers toning down their ambitions being one of them.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hpoe 7y ago
This is something that has been bothering me lately and I am going to use your comment to extrapolate on it. People keep comparing today to 1920's and 1930's and worried about another Hitler or WWII, but the world isn't like the 1920s or 1930s the world today is like the 1890s and the 1900s that led up to WWI. After WWII we had pretty much every nation broken and crippled economically and militarily, there was no major power left, Hitler's conquest of Europe had much less to do with Nazism and populism and much more to do with the fact that no one wanted to pick a fight because they remembered the horrors of WWI and were anxious to avoid it. It was a leaderless world the eventually turned into a bipolar world, with a world culture that was still advancing but not as quickly as it had been 20 or 30 years ago, breakthroughs were still being made but engineering wasn't advancing like it was during the height of the industrial revolution, most everyone was much less concerned with international politics and much more interested in national politics and solving immediate problems like food and shelter, ideas of equality and social justice held much less sway than ideas about how to get people back to work. Compare that with the days leading up to WWI. In the world at this time you had the rise of multiple powers, a multi-polar world, England, France, Germany, the Ottomans, Russia, etc. The world had changed drastically from the last major conflict, and military thinking was entirely unequipped to handle it. The world was linked by huge networks of trade agreements and multinational corporations, and Nationalism was on the rise across all the major players. Every country believed that it was big enough to really play with the big boys. In addition tensions were heightened because every country was trying desperately to outpace it's neighbors in military invention resulting in widespread espionage, and spying, because everyone knew he with the best tech would win the next war. People had jobs and world prosperity was at record levels with fewer people in poverty than ever before and consequently more people literate and with opinions on ideas like economic theory, and what made a legitimate society. Now we have today, we have new world powers rising, India, China, Russia has moved back to a position of considerable world rather than just regional power. The EU is consolidating, the South American economy is on the rise and Africa is starting to boom. Multinational corporations have vast supply chains that stretch across the globe to produce goods as fast as they can, many governments are pushing protections and trying to tilt international agreements to the favor or their pet corporations. We have been decades since any real large scale war has occurred, we've had regional incidents which although tragic don't even approach the kind of combat seen historically. To add to all this many countries are seeing a rise in nationalism, believing their country to be the best equipped to lead into the future. Research and technology espionage is rife throughout all the world, every country desperately trying to get a leg up for the next conflict. Meanwhile more people are better off than they have ever been historically, global industry has brought many formerly impoverished nations to the forefront of manufacturing and prosperity, the brightest and best aren't flocking to just one or two major world powers but many are choosing to stay in their own country and develop it. So let me ask you, does our world sound more like the world of 1910, or the world of 1930?

epicureanideal 7y ago

I'd be interested to hear in what ways you think it's similar to the 1920s and 1930s.

i_haz_rabies 7y ago
Fraying alliances, inequality, out-of-date military doctrines, increasing American isolationism, increasing polarization, rising fascism, tension in Europe, tension in East Asia, tension between established powers and new powers...
Ididntdothis 7y ago
I think in the 1920s you saw a decay of established institutions, recession and consequently the rise of populists like the nazis. I think it’s very similar to that right now. A lot of people think that the system is not working for them anymore. That leaves an opening for strong leaders that explain everything by blaming problems on “others”. You see that with trump and also a lot of countries in Europe. Yalta was about rebuilding a world system. Right now we have to be careful about existing systems falling apart.
- redis_mlc 7y ago
  > I think in the 1920s you saw a decay of established institutions, ... No. The inter-war period was just a lull, as Germany was not occupied and did not feel defeated. The onerous reparations actually incentived Germany to re-ignite WW1 into WW2. Britain and France might as well have asked for it. > A lot of people think that the system is not working for them anymore. Rulers don't care about people, especially Trump. Study the de Vos appointment to understand how profoundly an oligarch he is.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    There’s more to it than just Germany. The postwar disillusionment with the old order and the boom/bust was amplified by things like radio and telephone. The world moved faster, and that brought good and bad things. That’s what worries me... our institutions haven’t caught up with the internet.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    Germany had hyperinflation and very unstable government. It was a bad time until hitler said “make Germany great again”.

baybal2 7y ago

America made an overnight U-turn from the existing international community, which lead to creation of a new one. Both NATO and the gradual decline of European major powers post-war was a result of that. NATO coming to existence, and its initial strength was in many reasons due to Western European power fears that US may turn back on them too eventually. The timidity of Western Europe on the global stage in that time period was also a result of them ceding primacy on the world stage to US.

WalterBright 7y ago
The complete collapse of government in continental Europe immediately after WW2 along with the breakdown of social order likely had a lot to do with that.
- baybal2 7y ago
  Sure that's the case too, but most of Western Europe was spared a complete devastation, unlike Central and Eastern Europe. A lot of them resumed their colonial ambitions, and small time squabbles within few years after the war, but they never resumed them in a way they did before WWII, and never tried to challenge US primacy. They were very conscious of American reservations. Back in the early cold war, NATO was coming with a lot more of strings attached from US, with former great powers toning down their ambitions being one of them.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

hpoe 7y ago

This is something that has been bothering me lately and I am going to use your comment to extrapolate on it. People keep comparing today to 1920's and 1930's and worried about another Hitler or WWII, but the world isn't like the 1920s or 1930s the world today is like the 1890s and the 1900s that led up to WWI. After WWII we had pretty much every nation broken and crippled economically and militarily, there was no major power left, Hitler's conquest of Europe had much less to do with Nazism and populism and much more to do with the fact that no one wanted to pick a fight because they remembered the horrors of WWI and were anxious to avoid it. It was a leaderless world the eventually turned into a bipolar world, with a world culture that was still advancing but not as quickly as it had been 20 or 30 years ago, breakthroughs were still being made but engineering wasn't advancing like it was during the height of the industrial revolution, most everyone was much less concerned with international politics and much more interested in national politics and solving immediate problems like food and shelter, ideas of equality and social justice held much less sway than ideas about how to get people back to work. Compare that with the days leading up to WWI. In the world at this time you had the rise of multiple powers, a multi-polar world, England, France, Germany, the Ottomans, Russia, etc. The world had changed drastically from the last major conflict, and military thinking was entirely unequipped to handle it. The world was linked by huge networks of trade agreements and multinational corporations, and Nationalism was on the rise across all the major players. Every country believed that it was big enough to really play with the big boys. In addition tensions were heightened because every country was trying desperately to outpace it's neighbors in military invention resulting in widespread espionage, and spying, because everyone knew he with the best tech would win the next war. People had jobs and world prosperity was at record levels with fewer people in poverty than ever before and consequently more people literate and with opinions on ideas like economic theory, and what made a legitimate society. Now we have today, we have new world powers rising, India, China, Russia has moved back to a position of considerable world rather than just regional power. The EU is consolidating, the South American economy is on the rise and Africa is starting to boom. Multinational corporations have vast supply chains that stretch across the globe to produce goods as fast as they can, many governments are pushing protections and trying to tilt international agreements to the favor or their pet corporations. We have been decades since any real large scale war has occurred, we've had regional incidents which although tragic don't even approach the kind of combat seen historically. To add to all this many countries are seeing a rise in nationalism, believing their country to be the best equipped to lead into the future. Research and technology espionage is rife throughout all the world, every country desperately trying to get a leg up for the next conflict. Meanwhile more people are better off than they have ever been historically, global industry has brought many formerly impoverished nations to the forefront of manufacturing and prosperity, the brightest and best aren't flocking to just one or two major world powers but many are choosing to stay in their own country and develop it. So let me ask you, does our world sound more like the world of 1910, or the world of 1930?