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That assumes a great deal about both the resources available to do it and the ability to get responses from a representative sample of customers. It's not chal

by Kalium 7y ago

That assumes a great deal about both the resources available to do it and the ability to get responses from a representative sample of customers. It's not challenging to see why someone might choose a one-time cost in software engineering over an ongoing cost in communication.

adamc 7y ago
It's not challenging, but it's wrong. If you want to explain it to them, making a binding promise of what it would be used for, and have it be opt-in, that would be another thing. It's not hard to see how to do it right.
- Kalium 7y ago
  Morally and ethically, you're absolutely correct in every single possible way. I was attempting to illustrate the decision-making processes that may have led to this juncture and what happened to communicating with customers. Please accept my apologies, as I have plainly failed to be clear that this was not an argument as to the moral or ethical questions concerned. Again, you're completely right. It's not at all difficult to see the morally and ethically correct way to go about this.
a_e_k 7y ago
I really like the approach that the Steam survey uses which blends engineering and communication: 1) Pop up and ask for permission to scan the machine. 2) Show the data collected that will be sent back and give a second chance to decline. 3) Allow everyone to see the aggregate results. Being mostly automated, it's lower friction than a manual Q&A survey. But it also feels way more respectful that trying to snoop around and then clandestinely exfiltrate the data. It's one of the few cases where I'm willing to opt-in to data collection.
- nerdponx 7y ago
  This. You aren't asking for vague blanket permission, nor are you asking for the user to manually fill out a survey. And you give them the opportunity to review what they're about to send.
- IggleSniggle 7y ago
  Great point! And being able to see the results in aggregate is also interesting. It inclines me to share, because it becomes a two-way share, even though I don't actually have use for the information.
  - penagwin 7y ago
    Being able to see the aggregate data isn't just interesting but publicly helpful. From a game developer perspective, looking at it right now tells me that (simplified): * Most gamers have at least a GTX 1050 and 8GB of ram or higher. Perfect now we know where to aim our medium settings. * 74% use Nvidia GPUs, 15% use AMD - now we know where to focus driver optimizations * English, Simplified Chinese, and Russian are the top languages (where to focus translations) * 72% play on 1080p, 14% on 1440p, etc. Tells us what resolutions to make sure our UI works on.

by Kalium 7y ago

adamc 7y ago

It's not challenging, but it's wrong. If you want to explain it to them, making a binding promise of what it would be used for, and have it be opt-in, that would be another thing. It's not hard to see how to do it right.

Kalium 7y ago
Morally and ethically, you're absolutely correct in every single possible way. I was attempting to illustrate the decision-making processes that may have led to this juncture and what happened to communicating with customers. Please accept my apologies, as I have plainly failed to be clear that this was not an argument as to the moral or ethical questions concerned. Again, you're completely right. It's not at all difficult to see the morally and ethically correct way to go about this.

a_e_k 7y ago

I really like the approach that the Steam survey uses which blends engineering and communication: 1) Pop up and ask for permission to scan the machine. 2) Show the data collected that will be sent back and give a second chance to decline. 3) Allow everyone to see the aggregate results. Being mostly automated, it's lower friction than a manual Q&A survey. But it also feels way more respectful that trying to snoop around and then clandestinely exfiltrate the data. It's one of the few cases where I'm willing to opt-in to data collection.

nerdponx 7y ago
This. You aren't asking for vague blanket permission, nor are you asking for the user to manually fill out a survey. And you give them the opportunity to review what they're about to send.
IggleSniggle 7y ago
Great point! And being able to see the results in aggregate is also interesting. It inclines me to share, because it becomes a two-way share, even though I don't actually have use for the information.
- penagwin 7y ago
  Being able to see the aggregate data isn't just interesting but publicly helpful. From a game developer perspective, looking at it right now tells me that (simplified): * Most gamers have at least a GTX 1050 and 8GB of ram or higher. Perfect now we know where to aim our medium settings. * 74% use Nvidia GPUs, 15% use AMD - now we know where to focus driver optimizations * English, Simplified Chinese, and Russian are the top languages (where to focus translations) * 72% play on 1080p, 14% on 1440p, etc. Tells us what resolutions to make sure our UI works on.