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IE9 vs. Firefox 4 (done in canvas)
- georgemcbay 16y agoWhat's the deal with all of this high school bitchfesting going on lately between Google, Microsoft and Mozilla? My opinion of each of them drops every time they involve themselves in this crap. How about you all stfu, work on your respective software and let your products do the talking?
- albemuth 16y agoDoes the page render correctly in IE9? :P
- catshirt 16y agoseeing all this energy wasted trying to convince people firefox 4 is better than ie 9 sort of solidifies my belief that chrome reigns supreme
- drivebyacct2 16y agoNot sure why their marketing affects the actual merits of Firefox or Chrome, but. I agree that Firefox is trying a bit too hard (though this appears to simply be one user). Additionally, Chrome is still faster and has less ui-chrome that gets in my way. I also find the extensions to be more cleanly implemented still than Firefox 4's.
- jefe78 16y agoI have to agree. I was an avid FF user for many years. I shied away from Chrome for quite some time, until this December. A fresh FF install with no addons was painfully unresponsive, given 'too many tabs'. Those same tabs in Chrome chugged along. I hope FF can get back on track(relative to Chrome:P) and reduce some of the bloat.
- catshirt 16y agothese are all my thoughts as well. i didn't mean to suggest their marketing affects/suggests anything really. i just can't see who they're targeting with the posts. was there anyone who needed convincing that ie has less features? how does this benefit them? in my completely unqualified opinion, i'd have guessed they'd be better off persuading the growing wave of users who are switching from firefox to chrome.
- yesimahuman 16y agoThe one thing I dislike about Chrome is that I still find it buggy at times on my mac. Buggy in strange ways and especially with the inspector/debugger. That being said, I still use it as my main browser. Going back to FF annoys me when there are two input boxes (address bar and search) and that the tabs don't close under each other (for really convenient tab closing). Other than that I'm sort of indifferent.
- paulirish 16y agoI'd love to hear more about those bugs you're getting. Feel free to bug (hah!) me on twitter @paul_irish or report straight to http://new.crbug.com http://new.crbug.com
- Groxx 16y agoI get a heck of a lot more bugs (almost 2x) with Firebug on FF4 than with Chrome's inspector, though that still means I have to restart both almost a dozen times (no, really, that many) per day while building a web page. A recent one: an input field would be spontaneously filled with a "1" if (and only if) Firebug was active. Persisted across application re-starts, but not through a reboot.
- jlongster 16y agoIE 9 is a valid contender, especially outside of the tech crowd. It's also about to be released, so it makes sense for marketing to focus on it.
- tmgrhm 16y agoTrue, but it's not the contender they should be focusing on. It's like Apple comparing iOS to Symbian and lauding how great iOS is, when really they should be watching Android.
- jlongster 16y agoI work for Mozilla, and we are watching Chrome. It's just not the right time to campaign against Chrome. Chrome is only eating away from IE's market share, and IE 9 could attract a lot of non-techie users. Adopting a process-per-tab model is currently being implemented (https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis https://wiki.mozilla.org/Electrolysis), and I imagine once that's done we will be discussing Chrome a lot more.
- johncaverns 16y agoI switched from Mozilla to Chrome... Mozilla is just waaay too slow. The only thing I missed were the extensions, but Chrome is getting better on those as well. Based on my experience, Mozilla has a lot of reasons to be afraid of Chrome.
- jlongster 16y agoHave you tried Firefox 4 Beta? http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/beta/ http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/beta/ We are nearing the end of our Firefox 3 cycle (Firefox 4 is going to be released next month), and that's where our significant speed improvements have been implemented in the last 2 years. It's about even with Chrome speed-wise.
- tmgrhm 16y ago"Chrome is only eating away from IE's market share" Really? I'd love to see some sources on that, because I know of dozens of people who've switched from Firefox to Chrome. Obviously I wasn't suggesting you weren't watching Chrome at all, but it's good to hear you're making the right decisions in competing with Chrome (primarily the reduction of Firefox's inherent clunkiness and slowness).
- cgranade 16y agoGiven how instructive the source code is, I think it serves as a nice demo. Even moreso when you consider that this is (by all appearances, anyway) a personal project and not an orchestrated marketing campaign.
- Groxx 16y agoNot saying I agree or disagree, merely: "consider the following" Chrome: 10.0.648.45 dev HTML5 score: 293 FF4: 255 Compatibility differences from [1]: ( "-" == in other category ) Chrome 10 FF 4 Partial: CSS Text-Overflow Datalist Element - WAI-ARIA - SVG for HTML - SVG filters - - h264 video - Web notifications - SVG fonts - Web SQL - WebSocket - HTML5 Form Complete: Server-sent DOM events CSS Text-Stroke Progress & Meter h264 video - CSS masks Web notifications - SVG fonts - Web SQL - CSS Animation WebSocket - HTML5 Form - Form Validation - Datalist Element calc() in CSS Animated PNG - WAI-ARIA - SVG for HTML - SVG filters Summary: 87% 81% And WTF are they doing with that table[2] (disable "detailed tables")? It doesn't render correctly on anything I've got (OSX). [1]: http://caniuse.com/#agents=firefox,chrome&eras=near,unoff&sort=rscore http://caniuse.com/#agents=firefox,chrome&eras=near,unof... [2]: http://caniuse.com/#agents=firefox,chrome&eras=near,unoff&sort=rscore&nodetails=1 http://caniuse.com/#agents=firefox,chrome&eras=near,unof...
- zacharyz 16y agoSeems to render well in Chrome. ;)
- nhebb 16y agoKind of reminds me of when Scott McNealy was so obsessed with Microsoft that he didn't seem to notice Sun's real competition sneaking up behind him.
- fungi 16y agoit reminds me of the last 10 years of my life wasting countless days/weeks cleaning up after msie 6/7/8.
- dillon 16y agoThis is why Developers hate IE, we have to make code specifically for that browser. I guess if you truly hate Microsoft, you wouldn't code it and just tell the user to download Firefox.
- est 16y ago> This is why Developers hate IE, we have to make code specifically for that browser. Stop using -webkit, -moz, -o first.
- steveklabnik 16y agoRed herring. Vendor prefixes are part of the standards process. Once the standard is finalized, you simply drop -moz and you're done. This is nowhere near the same league as IE CSS/JS fixes.
- orenmazor 16y agoall this tells me is that firefox is scared of IE. which I guess is a good thing.
- emehrkay 16y agoThey have nothing to worry about. Take this from someone who is going bald at a faster rate because I needed to assist in porting an chrome-only app over to support IE9. FF, Safari, Opera were no problem, money was all spent on IE
- Hov 16y agoIf they have nothing to worry about then why the constant sniping? Shouldn't they be focusing on the real competition...that is Chrome and/or Safari?
- shaggyfrog 16y agoI think it's exactly the opposite. The FF team has come out and set the agenda: that IE is not compliant. Microsoft came back with a ham-fisted "nuh-uh, we are not!", which is playing directly into the narrative Mozilla wants. Terrible PR management on behalf of MS, here.
- fungi 16y ago> What's missing in IE9? ... text-shadow ... CSS3 Gradients ... border-image ... really? MS wont even support frikken text shadows? ffs ms. don't ship the fucking thing then, just take your time and get it right, please don't break everything again, my life is to short. what did i do to you to make you hate me so :(
- alanh 16y agoThe craziest thing about it is they removed the old `filter` hacks for (bad, but hey) text shadows without replacing them with their modern CSS3 equivalent. (I should clarify: I mean in IE9’s IE9 mode, naturally.)
- wot 16y ago> don't ship the fucking thing then I thought IE9 was still a work in progress?
- paulirish 16y agoThe IE9 Release Candidate has shipped. They are done adding features.
- barista 16y agoOk if we are going to discus this all over again then it helps to first read the older thread at http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2221831 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2221831
- 16y ago
- Charuru 16y agoAnyone else find this infographic hard to read? Chrome 10.
- alanh 16y agoNot sure what you are trying to say. I’m in Chrome 9 and it looks pretty great.
- kemayo 16y agoThe horrible flash-of-unstyled-content suggests that this is not a good use of canvas. :P
- tsuipen 16y agoI just created a user to say to the site's author: Your site isn't HTML5 compliant, bro. JUST SAYIN'. http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.mozilla.com%2F~prouget%2Fie9%2Fie9_vs_fx4.html&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0 http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpeople.mozill...
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- Derbasti 16y agoWell, at least IE9 is somewhat up to date. HTML5 is still a working draft that no-one implements fully. Everyone implements a certain subset of it and I don't quite see how one subset is supposed to be superior to another subset as long as their is no one who implements it fully. Gee, at least Microsoft is making an effort! And by the way, an uncluttered, fast-starting browser that implements a somewhat smaller subset of HTML5 than a messy, slow-as-molasses browser might have something going for it, too. Just sayin'
- chc 16y agoThere is a common subset that most browsers have supported for a long time. I think the benefit of supporting that subset is pretty obvious, and I don't see how you can make the argument that a subset of a subset is better than the larger subset.
- acabal 16y agoI'm still not sure what the point of all this is. Any developer worth their salt already knows that IE9 is more or less a small step forward but still far short of what it needs to be and of what FF/Chrome have accomplished ages ago. Any non-technical user won't be reading this article and won't give a damn about IE vs. FF vs. Chrome, as long as their internets work. Why keep up the pissing match? Who are they talking to?
- mmazing 16y agoThe point is that Microsoft has been terrible at this since 1999. They consistently do their own thing instead of going with standards, and they are always behind the curve. They seem to be trying to catch up with standards but have been unable to make any sort of impressive progress. To be honest, if they've put five years into it and are still so far behind, they need to fire some people. Does anyone actually consider IE to be a valid contender for browsers? Personally, I gave up years ago.
- acabal 16y agoExactly... you, and every other serious developer. That IE is garbage is obvious to anybody who's done web development for more than a month. So why is Mozilla even bothering with these technical articles? IE lost to developers years ago, and IE9 won't change that. I guess I'm just confused as to why this article, and the other similar ones from this past week, are even news.
- fady 16y agoNot news, but pressure and the fine art of telling the truth. It's to keep MS in check, transparent. In my opinion.
- rbanffy 16y ago> So why is Mozilla even bothering with these technical articles? Because they need to educate the clueless who decide to make their internal web applications IE-dependent. Making an internal web app IE-only is one of the most common and crippling mistakes corporate IT makes.
- profitbaron 16y agoI really don't get why Mozilla posted this, other then to say to the 'tech' crowd "we're better then IE" but they already know that. If, Mozilla really want to impress the 'tech' crowd they should show how they compare to Chrome because, mainstream users ONLY care about being able to view the websites they want to visit which is why most of them stick to Internet Explorer which came installed on their PC's (despite new legislation saying Microsoft had to suggest other browsers too) as they 'trust' that it will display the websites they want to see.
- chc 16y agoMicrosoft is pitching IE 9 as, basically, "Hey guys, we finally caught up! We now offer an awesome HTML5alicious browsing experience, so y'all can stop switching to Firefox and come back over here!" This is Mozilla's return salvo. It's about keeping their message out there.
- profitbaron 16y agoThe way it is appearing is that Mozilla are scared of IE especially when you consider where the product has evolved from IE6. Additionally, it needs to be said that whilst IE9 may be lacking some HTML5 and CSS3 features that Firefox 4 supports that HTML5 standards won't be completed until 2014, and Mircosoft will have its IE product fully supporting HTML5 by then. I'm a firefox user but I still believe that Mozilla had no reason to do this, other than that they are realizing that IE has become a decent competitor again and they can't just pump out a slightly better browser to convince the crowd to convert. They've made themselves look a little stupid especially with regards to standards which won't be completed until 2014, and you can probably expect Google Chrome team to release a Chrome Vs. FF4 comparing its standards etc.
- chc 16y agoI think Mozilla is worried that people will accept IE 9. If Microsoft's pitch takes hold in people's minds, the push for Firefox will lose steam. And all of this "HTML5 standards won't be completed until 2014" talk is kind of a semantic game. That fallacious concept is why Ian Hickson is trying to move away from the unrealistic notion of a "totally finished standard." In practice, most of the stuff Firefox implements is already nailed down. IE is unquestionably lagging.
- phatbyte 16y agoThe funny thing is, while as a web developer I hate with all my guts fighting IE standards(?), I also hate how Firefox (yes even version 4) is a memory hog. It's unbearable to work with it consuming 700mb to 1Gb of memory, with just a few tabs and firebug on. Chrome(webkit) on the other side, wins both of these two combined any time of day. Mozilla, you have come a long away, you created history when you came out with Firefox, you destroyed IE user base back in the days, and in Europe you are now the number one top browser. However, please stop comparing yourself to other browsers and work on your own issues. Point being is, I love FF (although I'm not using it lately), but I'm hating how cocky they are becoming.
- Retric 16y agoI understand that people like netbook/nettops etc, but ram is really cheap. At 10$ / Gig range there is little reason to have less than 8GB and 16GB while probably overkill is still fairly inexpensive. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231310&cm_re=DDR3-_-20-231-310-_-Product http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231...
- pcwalton 16y agoDo you have steps to reproduce the huge RAM consumption by any chance (which sites do you have open, which OS)? I'm very interested in solving these kinds of performance issues in the product. And for the record, I wish Paul Rouget hadn't posted this. IE9 is a great browser - they do some things better than us, even (text-overflow, SVG acceleration via D2D, out-of-process tabs), and we should recognize this.
- udp 16y agoUgh. What's with the caps lock? This is incredibly hard to read (for me, at least). It just looks offensive. This is going to be far less effective than a nice, polite feature comparison would be.
- moxiemk1 16y agoWe really need to stop measuring "compatibility" numerically. Its dishonest and encourages engineering decisions to be made instead of policy ones, when the data is purely the result of someone else's policy decision. Not all things have equal weight; choosing which things to call an element, which ones to merge, which ones to split is always subjective. Valid discussions are where we fully state our chosen assumptions, not ones where we then make fake data out of them.
- KeyBoardG 16y agoWhy would I care what platforms are supported if I only use one? Also you could probably the numbers reversed if you asked Microsoft.