8 ms·

I'm blown away that the majority of comments here about people's experience with their XPS 13 is so negative. I've written about this before on HN, to the poin

I'm blown away that the majority of comments here about people's experience with their XPS 13 is so negative. I've written about this before on HN, to the point where it's starting to feel a little rediculous, but my experience has been so positive I view this machine as the modern replacement of the glory days MBP. I have the 2018 edition of this laptop and to this day it performs amazingly well. Battery life is on par with the new MBP I used for work in 2016. With Terminal, Chrome, Signal, PyCharm, and Hangouts open I consistently get up to 5 days of battery life. Suspend and sleep mode works perfectly when opening and closing the top. I do think TLP[1] is required for this though. If you upgrade Ubuntu from your stock installation from Dell, the config might be lost though. It has literally never crashed on me. I've had absolutely no stability issues. OS upgrades are seamless and have only resulted in performance improvements. I haven't noticed any issues from Intel microcode updates, but this is anecdotal and I haven't tested this thoroughly. It's the closest I've gotten to a MBP in terms of mouse pad quality. Gnome on Wayland provides great mouse pad gesture support, but X Org definitely still works, though I permanently moved to Wayland over a year ago. I can't comment on Dell support, because I've never actually had to contact them. Happy to answer any questions anyone has. [1] https://linrunner.de/en/tlp/docs/tlp-linux-advanced-power-management.html https://linrunner.de/en/tlp/docs/tlp-linux-advanced-power-ma...

dundercoder 7y ago
How is the smoothness/precision of the trackpad compared to MBP?
- oarsinsync 7y ago
  The unit I used briefly (~10 mins) is comparable to my 2015 MBP
  - NotSammyHagar 7y ago
    it's good. the problem is battery life.
- ZeroCool2u 7y ago
  I would agree with oarsinsync, it's very similar to the MBP I used. Chrome has a small issue where it doesn't play perfectly with Wayland yet, so perfectly scrolling isn't quite there, but Firefox is great and honestly it just doesn't bother me that much either way. Native applications are very similar to the MBP experience.
- robgibbons 7y ago
  It's hard to compare virtually anything to MBP's buttery smooth trackpad. I will say the trackpad is one of the slickest I've ever used with Linux.
unlinked_dll 7y ago
How is your experience so opposite to mine? My XPS-13 crashed twice this morning. This is a 2019 model. Its battery life is about 4 hours, idling. Multimonitor support is impossible to get functioning properly. Dell updates don't work through the system update UI (it straight up fails, various permissions errors). I need to sudo apt-get upgrade. Do we have different computers? I think the machine itself is awesome, the display and touch pad are great (although the keyboard has a bit too much flex for a $2k laptop) - but the OS is crazy finicky. I'm still sticking with this machine because all the problems I have point to having something fucky in a dependency, but it's tough to know what that is. Outside chance here, but do you have the GLFW/GTK development libraries installed?
- ZeroCool2u 7y ago
  Hmmm, that is a pretty different experience. What version of Ubuntu are you running? Did you reinstall Ubuntu from scratch at some point? I'm on 19.10 stable and just run apt update && apt upgrade. I got a firmware update a couple weeks ago I think. No issues here. Is TLP installed, running, and _configured_? You can take a look at my config file[1]. I really didn't change a whole lot from the default file. Also, I wouldn't copy and paste my file, but you can diff the two and try to make sure yours conforms closely and that might help. Do you have the 4k screen or the 1080p? I opted for the 1080p, because 4k will inevitably cost more battery life to drive all those pixels and I didn't feel the need for the 4k. If I run powertop[2] and check the tunables tab, there 2 things that say 'Bad' and the rest are good. One of them is something about VM writeback, which TLP actually sets to a more efficient value by default and another random one about a port that doesn't seem critical. Check out how many are 'Bad' on this list. Tbh, I don't use multi-monitor support, because I have a desktop as well. But apparently there's some folks elsewhere in this thread that are running Arch without multi-monitor issues. Perhaps there's some patches you need to get things working properly? I'm not sure what you mean about Dell updates failing. All updates should go through the "Software Updater" and for firmware the "Ubuntu Software" applications. There are no Dell specific repos for the anything beyond the last Ubuntu 18 LTS release as far as I can tell, but I haven't actually needed them so far. Make sure fwupd[3] is working. This is the software that handles your firmware updates and is the main important thing that should run when you open the "Ubuntu Software" application. As far as I know I don't have any GLFW/GTK libs installed. Though I have a SWE background, my day job has been data scientist for the past couple years, so I'm mostly doing Python + ML on GCP with my personal machine, though I do have a working Rust dev environment setup. [1] https://pastebin.com/Scf9A8jH https://pastebin.com/Scf9A8jH [2] https://01.org/sites/default/files/page/powertop_users_guide_201412.pdf https://01.org/sites/default/files/page/powertop_users_guide... [3] https://fwupd.org/lvfs/docs/users https://fwupd.org/lvfs/docs/users
horsawlarway 7y ago
This matches my experience, and I'm using a much older xps 15 model that I just recently put Arch on. It feels... Amazing. Gnome Wayland on Arch gets SO many things right. - HiDpi scaling works, and it works well - The touchpad is actually a joy to use (VASTLY different than the same machine on X) - Suspend/resume/all keyboard functions work correctly out of the box - Battery life is excellent (11-13 hours for simple dev/browsing: Admittedly, I have the external GPU disabled and usually keep it that way) - Usb-c/Thunderbolt port works without any configuration by default - My usb-c dock works as expected for multiple external displays, and for usb devices (it does not work for charging, but I can live with that) - multi-monitor works GREAT with 2 4k displays. It properly changes the resolution to 1920x1080 for each display to support both monitors through a single usb-c port, and if I use the hdmi out and usb-c, I get both at native resolution. - Wifi is stable and consistent (I'm on the killer ac module) - It NEVER gets hot. Even when I'm running our full stack. (Admittedly, if I turn the external gpu on, it does, but I just don't need it for my work) ------ This thing has been a complete joy to use. I was genuinely blown away at how good the experience is compared to even just 3 years ago when I last tried. It's become my new favorite machine during the last 3 months or so I've been on it. It makes Catalina on the MBP 15 feel like dogshit.
- ZeroCool2u 7y ago
  Glad I'm not the only one! I'm one of those people that can tinker endlessly, so I avoid Arch, because I need my tools to get out of the way and just let me work, but I'm happy to hear all this stuff is working for you. The only thing I really want from Dell at this point is for them to make an XPS 13 DE in an XPS 15 chassis. I don't even need a discrete GPU! I'd just like a bit more space for my hands etc. I've been thinking about maybe getting a usb-c dock as well. Would you mind dropping a link to yours please?
  - horsawlarway 7y ago
    I use Elgato. It's not a cheap dock, but it works for basically everything I've plugged into it. The ports are a tad wonky if you're not mostly on usb-c, but since my work machine, my home machine, and my phone all use it, it ends up working really nicely. It also works without any sort of driver installation across all three platforms (windows, osx, linux). https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Thunderbolt-Dock-Ethernet-aluminum/dp/B01MZ2ATGK https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Thunderbolt-Dock-Ethernet-alum... I talked my office into buying me one a year or two back, and ended up liking it enough to buy the Pro version for my home office. With the dock and a usb-switcher (something like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXXQKGM https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXXQKGM - don't get that one, though - I linked the usb 2 version and they have one for usb 3) I can swap my whole workstation from my windows PC to my laptop by plugging in a single cable and pressing a button, since I have the desktop machine using the display port inputs on my monitors and the dock using the hdmi.
BossingAround 7y ago
Has Dell fixed the coil whine of the CPU? I can hear it even with my ThinkPads, and I heard Dell was much worse.
- ZeroCool2u 7y ago
  I have seen so much discussion about coil whine on Reddit and HN and I have no idea what people are talking about. Maybe it's just me or I just got lucky, but I think this is a very vocal minority of people that are experiencing this. Perhaps it varies from model to model though? I feel like I'm pretty sensitive to high pitched noises and I've never noticed any sound emanating from my XPS 13 9370 besides what comes out of the speakers and the occasional fan spin up, which really only happens during the occasional Civ V game and firmware update.
  - BossingAround 7y ago
    > I think this is a very vocal minority of people that are experiencing this I think it's just some people are really sensitive to these noises. I can literally hear when my wife's phone is charged, because the charger starts to have insanely high-pitched coil whine (and I have to unplug it because I can't sleep with that noise). I can hear my Carbon X1's coil whine when I'm scrolling in Firefox, for example, on Linux. It's driving me nuts. From what I've heard and seen on youtube on Dell, I literally could not use the XPS line.
    - ZeroCool2u 7y ago
      Wow, that's wild. I'm definitely not hearing phones charge. Huge bummer my dude. I hope you find a machine that doesn't bother you.
      - NotSammyHagar 7y ago
        my late 2019 4k screen doesn't have the coil whine. just terrible battery life ;-)
NotSammyHagar 7y ago
Later versions have a lot of problems, apparently. Why are you blown away? This isn't some negative commenting problem. It may be confusing to you that things changed. I have the last 2019 xps, and it has terrible battery life. Something went wrong along the way, but the reviews mentioned 18 hour battery life, and also talked about 4k. I have the 4k screen and it gets less than 5 hours. I hate it. I regret buying it. This isn't because I want to bash dell. It's because they built something that gets about 30% of the claimed battery life. There are other software problems that I can live with, but the battery life is completely unacceptable.

dundercoder 7y ago

How is the smoothness/precision of the trackpad compared to MBP?

oarsinsync 7y ago
The unit I used briefly (~10 mins) is comparable to my 2015 MBP
- NotSammyHagar 7y ago
  it's good. the problem is battery life.
ZeroCool2u 7y ago
I would agree with oarsinsync, it's very similar to the MBP I used. Chrome has a small issue where it doesn't play perfectly with Wayland yet, so perfectly scrolling isn't quite there, but Firefox is great and honestly it just doesn't bother me that much either way. Native applications are very similar to the MBP experience.
robgibbons 7y ago
It's hard to compare virtually anything to MBP's buttery smooth trackpad. I will say the trackpad is one of the slickest I've ever used with Linux.

unlinked_dll 7y ago

How is your experience so opposite to mine? My XPS-13 crashed twice this morning. This is a 2019 model. Its battery life is about 4 hours, idling. Multimonitor support is impossible to get functioning properly. Dell updates don't work through the system update UI (it straight up fails, various permissions errors). I need to sudo apt-get upgrade. Do we have different computers? I think the machine itself is awesome, the display and touch pad are great (although the keyboard has a bit too much flex for a $2k laptop) - but the OS is crazy finicky. I'm still sticking with this machine because all the problems I have point to having something fucky in a dependency, but it's tough to know what that is. Outside chance here, but do you have the GLFW/GTK development libraries installed?

ZeroCool2u 7y ago
Hmmm, that is a pretty different experience. What version of Ubuntu are you running? Did you reinstall Ubuntu from scratch at some point? I'm on 19.10 stable and just run apt update && apt upgrade. I got a firmware update a couple weeks ago I think. No issues here. Is TLP installed, running, and _configured_? You can take a look at my config file[1]. I really didn't change a whole lot from the default file. Also, I wouldn't copy and paste my file, but you can diff the two and try to make sure yours conforms closely and that might help. Do you have the 4k screen or the 1080p? I opted for the 1080p, because 4k will inevitably cost more battery life to drive all those pixels and I didn't feel the need for the 4k. If I run powertop[2] and check the tunables tab, there 2 things that say 'Bad' and the rest are good. One of them is something about VM writeback, which TLP actually sets to a more efficient value by default and another random one about a port that doesn't seem critical. Check out how many are 'Bad' on this list. Tbh, I don't use multi-monitor support, because I have a desktop as well. But apparently there's some folks elsewhere in this thread that are running Arch without multi-monitor issues. Perhaps there's some patches you need to get things working properly? I'm not sure what you mean about Dell updates failing. All updates should go through the "Software Updater" and for firmware the "Ubuntu Software" applications. There are no Dell specific repos for the anything beyond the last Ubuntu 18 LTS release as far as I can tell, but I haven't actually needed them so far. Make sure fwupd[3] is working. This is the software that handles your firmware updates and is the main important thing that should run when you open the "Ubuntu Software" application. As far as I know I don't have any GLFW/GTK libs installed. Though I have a SWE background, my day job has been data scientist for the past couple years, so I'm mostly doing Python + ML on GCP with my personal machine, though I do have a working Rust dev environment setup. [1] https://pastebin.com/Scf9A8jH https://pastebin.com/Scf9A8jH [2] https://01.org/sites/default/files/page/powertop_users_guide_201412.pdf https://01.org/sites/default/files/page/powertop_users_guide... [3] https://fwupd.org/lvfs/docs/users https://fwupd.org/lvfs/docs/users

horsawlarway 7y ago

This matches my experience, and I'm using a much older xps 15 model that I just recently put Arch on. It feels... Amazing. Gnome Wayland on Arch gets SO many things right. - HiDpi scaling works, and it works well - The touchpad is actually a joy to use (VASTLY different than the same machine on X) - Suspend/resume/all keyboard functions work correctly out of the box - Battery life is excellent (11-13 hours for simple dev/browsing: Admittedly, I have the external GPU disabled and usually keep it that way) - Usb-c/Thunderbolt port works without any configuration by default - My usb-c dock works as expected for multiple external displays, and for usb devices (it does not work for charging, but I can live with that) - multi-monitor works GREAT with 2 4k displays. It properly changes the resolution to 1920x1080 for each display to support both monitors through a single usb-c port, and if I use the hdmi out and usb-c, I get both at native resolution. - Wifi is stable and consistent (I'm on the killer ac module) - It NEVER gets hot. Even when I'm running our full stack. (Admittedly, if I turn the external gpu on, it does, but I just don't need it for my work) ------ This thing has been a complete joy to use. I was genuinely blown away at how good the experience is compared to even just 3 years ago when I last tried. It's become my new favorite machine during the last 3 months or so I've been on it. It makes Catalina on the MBP 15 feel like dogshit.

ZeroCool2u 7y ago
Glad I'm not the only one! I'm one of those people that can tinker endlessly, so I avoid Arch, because I need my tools to get out of the way and just let me work, but I'm happy to hear all this stuff is working for you. The only thing I really want from Dell at this point is for them to make an XPS 13 DE in an XPS 15 chassis. I don't even need a discrete GPU! I'd just like a bit more space for my hands etc. I've been thinking about maybe getting a usb-c dock as well. Would you mind dropping a link to yours please?
- horsawlarway 7y ago
  I use Elgato. It's not a cheap dock, but it works for basically everything I've plugged into it. The ports are a tad wonky if you're not mostly on usb-c, but since my work machine, my home machine, and my phone all use it, it ends up working really nicely. It also works without any sort of driver installation across all three platforms (windows, osx, linux). https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Thunderbolt-Dock-Ethernet-aluminum/dp/B01MZ2ATGK https://www.amazon.com/Elgato-Thunderbolt-Dock-Ethernet-alum... I talked my office into buying me one a year or two back, and ended up liking it enough to buy the Pro version for my home office. With the dock and a usb-switcher (something like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXXQKGM https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MXXQKGM - don't get that one, though - I linked the usb 2 version and they have one for usb 3) I can swap my whole workstation from my windows PC to my laptop by plugging in a single cable and pressing a button, since I have the desktop machine using the display port inputs on my monitors and the dock using the hdmi.

BossingAround 7y ago

Has Dell fixed the coil whine of the CPU? I can hear it even with my ThinkPads, and I heard Dell was much worse.

ZeroCool2u 7y ago
I have seen so much discussion about coil whine on Reddit and HN and I have no idea what people are talking about. Maybe it's just me or I just got lucky, but I think this is a very vocal minority of people that are experiencing this. Perhaps it varies from model to model though? I feel like I'm pretty sensitive to high pitched noises and I've never noticed any sound emanating from my XPS 13 9370 besides what comes out of the speakers and the occasional fan spin up, which really only happens during the occasional Civ V game and firmware update.
- BossingAround 7y ago
  > I think this is a very vocal minority of people that are experiencing this I think it's just some people are really sensitive to these noises. I can literally hear when my wife's phone is charged, because the charger starts to have insanely high-pitched coil whine (and I have to unplug it because I can't sleep with that noise). I can hear my Carbon X1's coil whine when I'm scrolling in Firefox, for example, on Linux. It's driving me nuts. From what I've heard and seen on youtube on Dell, I literally could not use the XPS line.
  - ZeroCool2u 7y ago
    Wow, that's wild. I'm definitely not hearing phones charge. Huge bummer my dude. I hope you find a machine that doesn't bother you.
    - NotSammyHagar 7y ago
      my late 2019 4k screen doesn't have the coil whine. just terrible battery life ;-)

NotSammyHagar 7y ago

Later versions have a lot of problems, apparently. Why are you blown away? This isn't some negative commenting problem. It may be confusing to you that things changed. I have the last 2019 xps, and it has terrible battery life. Something went wrong along the way, but the reviews mentioned 18 hour battery life, and also talked about 4k. I have the 4k screen and it gets less than 5 hours. I hate it. I regret buying it. This isn't because I want to bash dell. It's because they built something that gets about 30% of the claimed battery life. There are other software problems that I can live with, but the battery life is completely unacceptable.