6 ms·

The best part is where the author admits to using google analytics himself to track who visits his blog. At some point we all have to say enough is enough.

gruez 7y ago
I'm going to go on a limb and say that tracking people who visits your blog is a little better than tracking app launches for the entire computer.
- andai 7y ago
  Certainly, although I would call it less bad, rather than better.
- rhacker 7y ago
  I think what escapes most people is that they think Google Analytics is a free product to help you track your visitors. Yes it does do that, but the more valuable product to other google customers is you've linked your website to a global ad network even if you don't display ads.
leppr 7y ago
Except that visiting a website is a known, expected information leak to the website owner, and for 70% of web users also automatically to Google. On the other hand leaking the list of apps on your local computer, and to a third-party to top it off, is unexpected and thus more harmful.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  I'd disagree with that. Given that the Wacom utility is full of app-specific references and "customize your tablet, per app", I'd say that this is on par. Ask random person, "Hey, do you know that when you visit John's blog, he sends your information to Google, too, not just himself?" and I guarantee you the answer is probably closer to 7% than 70%.
- risyachka 7y ago
  In theory yes. In reality no one cares what apps you use. They will do some big data analysis and thats it.
  - leppr 7y ago
    That's wishful thinking, not reality. In reality, many different actors can benefit from info about the used software on a particular users' PC. And now they know who to bribe to get it. > Has this investor got a beta build from that new startup everyone's talking about? Their bets are always winning, I better frontrun them if that's the case. > What apps could I exploit to get into this guy's computer? > Wait why is my employee suddenly running tor browser after I involved her into this new secret deal? Better be careful with her, she might be talking to someone. > Damn, our competitor's engineers are all running our app. Let's correlate the timestamps with our own backend to discover their accounts and push a special update to them.
13hunteo 7y ago
I've read a lot of comments recently about how Google Analytics is bad, but no one explain why. Can I ask why this is not something people want? Is it not anonymised?
- leppr 7y ago
  It's anonymized to the website owner (who has your IP anyway), not to Google. That means even non-Chrome users are forced under Google's omniscient watch of the web.
- AlexandrB 7y ago
  When a company with the reach and market share of Google is involved, "anonymized" is meaningless. They have so many other channels to gather data (Android, ReCaptcha, Chrome, Google Search, etc.) that I'm sure it's trivial to de-anonymize and correlate GA data to a real person if that becomes profitable/necessary.
- dahart 7y ago
  One reason why is that Google Analytics is not being limited to giving the web site owner traffic information, the analytics are also being used by Google to collect and correlate larger traffic patterns, as well as track individual users across multiple sites. These are things Google gets to see, but the neither the site owners nor the users have access to. What Google does exactly with this information is not entirely known outside of Google, though it's certainly used at least to improve personalized advertising, which many people feel is a privacy concern.
  - andai 7y ago
    Google, and anyone who has access / can gain access to the data, whether by technical means (NSA) or by law.
- pdkl95 7y ago
  GA gives Google surveillance over a large portion of the web. Even if the author of a webpage trusts google with their data, they shouldn't be forcing their opinion of Google on others. Trust isn't transitive! Google receiving browsing histories for a single website is rude, but it probably isn't a serious problem for many websites (although the risk will depend on the nature of the website). In isolation, the fact that Alice read Bob's webpage isn't isn't very interesting, but Google can aggregate that data into s very accurate pattern of life[1]. > Is it not anonymised? Not for any meaningful definition of "anonyms". At best GA will zero the low 8 bits of the IP address by request of the website. (The opinion of the person visiting the website apparently isn't worth considering) See this[2] post for a more detailed explanation of GA's perfunctory "Anonymize IP" feature. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern-of-life_analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern-of-life_analysis [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15167059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15167059
lostgame 7y ago
We've had visit counters since the 90's, so what?
- rhacker 7y ago
  Lol, comparing visit counters from the 90s to Google Analytics. GA is used by countless websites. It's likely hooked into the adwords codebase so that they can track websites you visit even if that website does not have Adwords ads on it.
dreamcompiler 7y ago
Why do people use GA? Every HTTP server generates a log. That's always been good enough for me. Then again my site doesn't have ads, so maybe that's the answer.
- diegof79 7y ago
  Ohh you bring me back memories of 1999 when I was using WebTrends to analyze http access logs. HTTP Log analysis is slow, and requires a lot of server side setup. Also, it will not give you navigation events in a SPA. Using GA... just drop a line of JavaScript and you are done, with near real-time insights that are more detailed than an access log. You don’t need any server conf, or extra knowledge (not even JS knowledge: copy & paste the embed code). And Google gives you that for “free”... that’s why tons of sites doesn’t care about Http access log analysis anymore. For desktop apps is easy too. The GA API is very simple: send the app id, event + any event data you want. Your dev team can do that with self service (no need to setup a service, no extra costs to handle data).

gruez 7y ago

I'm going to go on a limb and say that tracking people who visits your blog is a little better than tracking app launches for the entire computer.

andai 7y ago
Certainly, although I would call it less bad, rather than better.
rhacker 7y ago
I think what escapes most people is that they think Google Analytics is a free product to help you track your visitors. Yes it does do that, but the more valuable product to other google customers is you've linked your website to a global ad network even if you don't display ads.

leppr 7y ago

Except that visiting a website is a known, expected information leak to the website owner, and for 70% of web users also automatically to Google. On the other hand leaking the list of apps on your local computer, and to a third-party to top it off, is unexpected and thus more harmful.

FireBeyond 7y ago
I'd disagree with that. Given that the Wacom utility is full of app-specific references and "customize your tablet, per app", I'd say that this is on par. Ask random person, "Hey, do you know that when you visit John's blog, he sends your information to Google, too, not just himself?" and I guarantee you the answer is probably closer to 7% than 70%.
risyachka 7y ago
In theory yes. In reality no one cares what apps you use. They will do some big data analysis and thats it.
- leppr 7y ago
  That's wishful thinking, not reality. In reality, many different actors can benefit from info about the used software on a particular users' PC. And now they know who to bribe to get it. > Has this investor got a beta build from that new startup everyone's talking about? Their bets are always winning, I better frontrun them if that's the case. > What apps could I exploit to get into this guy's computer? > Wait why is my employee suddenly running tor browser after I involved her into this new secret deal? Better be careful with her, she might be talking to someone. > Damn, our competitor's engineers are all running our app. Let's correlate the timestamps with our own backend to discover their accounts and push a special update to them.

13hunteo 7y ago

I've read a lot of comments recently about how Google Analytics is bad, but no one explain why. Can I ask why this is not something people want? Is it not anonymised?

leppr 7y ago
It's anonymized to the website owner (who has your IP anyway), not to Google. That means even non-Chrome users are forced under Google's omniscient watch of the web.
AlexandrB 7y ago
When a company with the reach and market share of Google is involved, "anonymized" is meaningless. They have so many other channels to gather data (Android, ReCaptcha, Chrome, Google Search, etc.) that I'm sure it's trivial to de-anonymize and correlate GA data to a real person if that becomes profitable/necessary.
dahart 7y ago
One reason why is that Google Analytics is not being limited to giving the web site owner traffic information, the analytics are also being used by Google to collect and correlate larger traffic patterns, as well as track individual users across multiple sites. These are things Google gets to see, but the neither the site owners nor the users have access to. What Google does exactly with this information is not entirely known outside of Google, though it's certainly used at least to improve personalized advertising, which many people feel is a privacy concern.
- andai 7y ago
  Google, and anyone who has access / can gain access to the data, whether by technical means (NSA) or by law.
pdkl95 7y ago
GA gives Google surveillance over a large portion of the web. Even if the author of a webpage trusts google with their data, they shouldn't be forcing their opinion of Google on others. Trust isn't transitive! Google receiving browsing histories for a single website is rude, but it probably isn't a serious problem for many websites (although the risk will depend on the nature of the website). In isolation, the fact that Alice read Bob's webpage isn't isn't very interesting, but Google can aggregate that data into s very accurate pattern of life[1]. > Is it not anonymised? Not for any meaningful definition of "anonyms". At best GA will zero the low 8 bits of the IP address by request of the website. (The opinion of the person visiting the website apparently isn't worth considering) See this[2] post for a more detailed explanation of GA's perfunctory "Anonymize IP" feature. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern-of-life_analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern-of-life_analysis [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15167059 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15167059

lostgame 7y ago

We've had visit counters since the 90's, so what?

rhacker 7y ago
Lol, comparing visit counters from the 90s to Google Analytics. GA is used by countless websites. It's likely hooked into the adwords codebase so that they can track websites you visit even if that website does not have Adwords ads on it.

dreamcompiler 7y ago

Why do people use GA? Every HTTP server generates a log. That's always been good enough for me. Then again my site doesn't have ads, so maybe that's the answer.

diegof79 7y ago
Ohh you bring me back memories of 1999 when I was using WebTrends to analyze http access logs. HTTP Log analysis is slow, and requires a lot of server side setup. Also, it will not give you navigation events in a SPA. Using GA... just drop a line of JavaScript and you are done, with near real-time insights that are more detailed than an access log. You don’t need any server conf, or extra knowledge (not even JS knowledge: copy & paste the embed code). And Google gives you that for “free”... that’s why tons of sites doesn’t care about Http access log analysis anymore. For desktop apps is easy too. The GA API is very simple: send the app id, event + any event data you want. Your dev team can do that with self service (no need to setup a service, no extra costs to handle data).