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It is just that the days get wasted if you don't take them. So you would be stupid not to do it. > Not a freak, don't care for the infant stage. Happy to dote

It is just that the days get wasted if you don't take them. So you would be stupid not to do it. > Not a freak, don't care for the infant stage. Happy to dote when they start to turn into people. That is kind of a selfish attitude. The early stage is a lot of work, but why should you skip the work while your wife has to do it all? I remember back in that time. I was quite happy to go back to work the first weeks, because I found it quite exhausting with the first child. Work was super relaxing in comparison. I think it is only fair and square that one shares the load. I had my parental leave when my kids were 8 months or so. I actually forget exactly the time. But it was quit manageable by then and while a fair amount of work it was also a rewarding experience. > Would someone like me be held back artificially to promote equality? What about your wife's career. Isn't she held back if she had to spend all the time taking care of the kids? Why should she not be given similar opportunities as you?

toomuchtodo 7y ago
Speaking only for my personal situation, my partner is a stay at home parent. They have no career, do not want a career, and only want to be a full time parent (which I fully support). I use my resources to enable that, and make their life as easy as possible (hired help around the house, childcare, etc).
- zozbot234 7y ago
  You can still enable them in ways that don't involve working at a formal job. Doing chores, dealing with household issues, that kind of thing. Having a kid generally means that there's a lot of stressful work to do around the house, and you would be in the right position to deal with that.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    All of that has been hired out, because my job enables me to. I do work I enjoy so I don’t have to do work I don’t enjoy.
    - isodude 7y ago
      The kids build their connection to you in weird ways, smell, touch etc. Avoiding that 100% until they speak could have weird effects in their attachment (said without any actual proof). It's of course your choice, but just saying that that choice could end up biting you or the kid in the end. No it's not fun hanging around kids all the time, but it takes a lot of not fun moments to get to the good parts.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        Read my comments. I didn’t avoid it 100 percent. I make time to spend with my children every evening.
    - bantunes 7y ago
      I find it puzzling that someone would choose to embark on the paternity experience, but be very selective about what to experience. Life is not just what we like, and understanding that makes us more balanced individuals. One might think you're spoiled and incapable of dealing with adversity.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        Life is what you make of it. You call it spoiled, I call it privilege constructed from skill, determination, and luck. I’ve had enough adversity for one lifetime, my soul is weary, and refuse to submit to any additional unnecessary suffering. Without knowing my life, you’re not qualified to comment on it. I’m simply sharing my perspective having had my own kids and paternity leave offered.
    - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
      Being indoors all the time or having to care for a child 24/7 can be extremely isolating even in the best circumstances (where one isn't dealing with recovering from giving birth).
      - aguyfromnb 7y ago
- sandos 7y ago
  But kids dont really require one parent for the rest of that parents' life? So they then resume a non-existing career, or do they just stay home when the kids are in school etc? Living in Sweden this has always seemed a bit weird to me, since "stay at home parent" basically doesnt exist here, unless you are (involuntarily) unemployed.
  - Xixi 7y ago
    In my experience from spending several years in Japan where a lot of women opt out of continuing their career after getting married/having a child: a lot of time is spent socializing with other housewives. But the harsh economic realities mean that more and more women have to work to keep the household afloat, whether they want to or not.
- socialdemocrat 7y ago
  > Speaking only for my personal situation, my partner is a stay at home parent. Of course everybody's situation is different. My wife is actually currently at home as well. But you cannot advocate a system that just works for you. You got to have a system that benefits the population at large. Many women want a career and independence and many men would enjoy spending more time with their children. They should be given a chance to do that. You also have to consider that when a lot of people do like you guys, you keep promoting gender inequality. Men like you working long hours naturally get valued. Bosses come to expect men to be more dependable and flexible workers because they have no obligations at home. Women in contrast hit a glass ceiling because a company will expect that she will not have the same flexibility as a man. Men will be prioritized in career advancements and get higher salaries. Hence you get stuck in this gender pattern. Women end up staying home because they simply cannot compete salary-wise with men. I am not blaming you. I am just pointing out that if too many people make the kind of choices you make, it really holds back women's advancement in the workplace. > I use my resources to enable that, and make their life as easy as possible (hired help around the house, childcare, etc). Sounds great, but keep in mind there is a downside to this. It promotes the view that every parent is available for long work hours, because "hey just pay some help." For people with less fancy jobs that is not a simple option. One has to think of what role models one are. I find it somewhat disturbing when these higher powered women brag about being back at work the day after birth. It signals to everyone further down the chain that they are lazy asses if they don't do the same. Reality is that these are women with large amounts of resources who can hire a lot of help and don't have physically demanding jobs. I don't expect you to agree with me, because it is probably not in your culture to think like this. But at least in Scandinavia where both independence and solidarity are considered important values, we do think a lot about being good role models and showing solidarity with others. E.g. in Norwegian neighborhoods of all income levels people participate in "dugnad" which is a communal work together thing. Everybody clean up and fix up their neighborhood. The rich could have hired people to do it. But it is considered an important value even among rich Norwegians to physically contribute like this and be like everybody else once in a while. It affects the children you raise. I notice children from countries where rich people hire a lot of help are exceptionally spoiled.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
aguyfromnb 7y ago
>The early stage is a lot of work, but why should you skip the work while your wife has to do it all? "Skip the work"? He literally said he's working..a job. Unfortunately, in the society we've built it is considered the most important work, since it pays the bills and enables the ability to start a family. I agree it's important that both people share the burden of parenthood, but let's not swing it so far the other way that your sole source of income isn't considered "work".
- jacobush 7y ago
  I read it as skipping the work of being the parent.
- tyscore 7y ago
  But this is why the paternity leave is being offered. So that your 'sole source of income' is not stopped while you can do the 'work' and share equally in the workload of rearing the child that YOU decided you wanted. The original commenter is insinuating that even with this facility he will prefer to go to his 'real work' esp when the kid is small and the child-rearing work is not satisfactory enough and that frankly is quite selfish.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    My partner and I agreed ahead of time how the workload would be divided. Is the problem that you take issue with how it's divided? Why must the workload be shared equally?
throwaway894345 7y ago
> The early stage is a lot of work, but why should you skip the work while your wife has to do it all? > What about your wife's career. Isn't she held back if she had to spend all the time taking care of the kids? Why should she not be given similar opportunities as you? He is working, and perhaps his wife prefers caring for their child to working a job. If it's working for them, why criticize? Why is it wrong for this couple to distribute the work in the way that optimizes for their happiness?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

toomuchtodo 7y ago

Speaking only for my personal situation, my partner is a stay at home parent. They have no career, do not want a career, and only want to be a full time parent (which I fully support). I use my resources to enable that, and make their life as easy as possible (hired help around the house, childcare, etc).

zozbot234 7y ago
You can still enable them in ways that don't involve working at a formal job. Doing chores, dealing with household issues, that kind of thing. Having a kid generally means that there's a lot of stressful work to do around the house, and you would be in the right position to deal with that.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  All of that has been hired out, because my job enables me to. I do work I enjoy so I don’t have to do work I don’t enjoy.
  - isodude 7y ago
    The kids build their connection to you in weird ways, smell, touch etc. Avoiding that 100% until they speak could have weird effects in their attachment (said without any actual proof). It's of course your choice, but just saying that that choice could end up biting you or the kid in the end. No it's not fun hanging around kids all the time, but it takes a lot of not fun moments to get to the good parts.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      Read my comments. I didn’t avoid it 100 percent. I make time to spend with my children every evening.
  - bantunes 7y ago
    I find it puzzling that someone would choose to embark on the paternity experience, but be very selective about what to experience. Life is not just what we like, and understanding that makes us more balanced individuals. One might think you're spoiled and incapable of dealing with adversity.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      Life is what you make of it. You call it spoiled, I call it privilege constructed from skill, determination, and luck. I’ve had enough adversity for one lifetime, my soul is weary, and refuse to submit to any additional unnecessary suffering. Without knowing my life, you’re not qualified to comment on it. I’m simply sharing my perspective having had my own kids and paternity leave offered.
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    Being indoors all the time or having to care for a child 24/7 can be extremely isolating even in the best circumstances (where one isn't dealing with recovering from giving birth).
    - aguyfromnb 7y ago
sandos 7y ago
But kids dont really require one parent for the rest of that parents' life? So they then resume a non-existing career, or do they just stay home when the kids are in school etc? Living in Sweden this has always seemed a bit weird to me, since "stay at home parent" basically doesnt exist here, unless you are (involuntarily) unemployed.
- Xixi 7y ago
  In my experience from spending several years in Japan where a lot of women opt out of continuing their career after getting married/having a child: a lot of time is spent socializing with other housewives. But the harsh economic realities mean that more and more women have to work to keep the household afloat, whether they want to or not.
socialdemocrat 7y ago
> Speaking only for my personal situation, my partner is a stay at home parent. Of course everybody's situation is different. My wife is actually currently at home as well. But you cannot advocate a system that just works for you. You got to have a system that benefits the population at large. Many women want a career and independence and many men would enjoy spending more time with their children. They should be given a chance to do that. You also have to consider that when a lot of people do like you guys, you keep promoting gender inequality. Men like you working long hours naturally get valued. Bosses come to expect men to be more dependable and flexible workers because they have no obligations at home. Women in contrast hit a glass ceiling because a company will expect that she will not have the same flexibility as a man. Men will be prioritized in career advancements and get higher salaries. Hence you get stuck in this gender pattern. Women end up staying home because they simply cannot compete salary-wise with men. I am not blaming you. I am just pointing out that if too many people make the kind of choices you make, it really holds back women's advancement in the workplace. > I use my resources to enable that, and make their life as easy as possible (hired help around the house, childcare, etc). Sounds great, but keep in mind there is a downside to this. It promotes the view that every parent is available for long work hours, because "hey just pay some help." For people with less fancy jobs that is not a simple option. One has to think of what role models one are. I find it somewhat disturbing when these higher powered women brag about being back at work the day after birth. It signals to everyone further down the chain that they are lazy asses if they don't do the same. Reality is that these are women with large amounts of resources who can hire a lot of help and don't have physically demanding jobs. I don't expect you to agree with me, because it is probably not in your culture to think like this. But at least in Scandinavia where both independence and solidarity are considered important values, we do think a lot about being good role models and showing solidarity with others. E.g. in Norwegian neighborhoods of all income levels people participate in "dugnad" which is a communal work together thing. Everybody clean up and fix up their neighborhood. The rich could have hired people to do it. But it is considered an important value even among rich Norwegians to physically contribute like this and be like everybody else once in a while. It affects the children you raise. I notice children from countries where rich people hire a lot of help are exceptionally spoiled.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago

aguyfromnb 7y ago

>The early stage is a lot of work, but why should you skip the work while your wife has to do it all? "Skip the work"? He literally said he's working..a job. Unfortunately, in the society we've built it is considered the most important work, since it pays the bills and enables the ability to start a family. I agree it's important that both people share the burden of parenthood, but let's not swing it so far the other way that your sole source of income isn't considered "work".

jacobush 7y ago
I read it as skipping the work of being the parent.
tyscore 7y ago
But this is why the paternity leave is being offered. So that your 'sole source of income' is not stopped while you can do the 'work' and share equally in the workload of rearing the child that YOU decided you wanted. The original commenter is insinuating that even with this facility he will prefer to go to his 'real work' esp when the kid is small and the child-rearing work is not satisfactory enough and that frankly is quite selfish.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  My partner and I agreed ahead of time how the workload would be divided. Is the problem that you take issue with how it's divided? Why must the workload be shared equally?

throwaway894345 7y ago

> The early stage is a lot of work, but why should you skip the work while your wife has to do it all? > What about your wife's career. Isn't she held back if she had to spend all the time taking care of the kids? Why should she not be given similar opportunities as you? He is working, and perhaps his wife prefers caring for their child to working a job. If it's working for them, why criticize? Why is it wrong for this couple to distribute the work in the way that optimizes for their happiness?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]