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I don't really see a major advantage of this over using create-react-app with Typescript and libraries like Styled components for styling and react-router for r

I don't really see a major advantage of this over using create-react-app with Typescript and libraries like Styled components for styling and react-router for routing. All of the batteries-included features can be easily handled by libraries and tools that are already well developed.

abathur 7y ago
Just to play devil's advocate, you may not see the advantage, because you already know about all of those options. There's a fair amount of library discovery/evaluation overhead needed to get a fresh start in the React ecosystem, and the people who have to do it often don't have the perspective/context to make good choices efficiently.
- slantyyz 7y ago
  It's also important to note that not all developers have the same constraints. If your employment prospects don't depend on using the major frameworks that everyone else is using, you're probably going to choose (or even create) a framework that best fits with the way you think and the way you like to work.
- zackify 7y ago
  Like they said, React router and the TS template for create react app. There’s your overhead discovery work to do an equivalent to this with react.
  - simplify 7y ago
    create-react-app only does setup. And react router is by no means intuitive.
  - CathedralBorrow 7y ago
    Equivalent to you maybe. Certainly not to me. Not that either one of us holds the absolute truth.
- iudqnolq 7y ago
  I started learning react a few weeks ago and I've been using react-router and thinking about learning styled components or something similar. I have a few years of "experience" with toy <5000LoC "webapps". I don't think they're that hard to discover, although I spent a while trying other Google searches before I realized react-training's react-router was the real router everyone mentions. Somehow their website seemed quite scammy, and I was very surprised routing wasn't in some sort of core/stdlib.
_bxg1 7y ago
The syntax is a little cleaner (and presumably more constrained). Only a little bit, but scaled across a large project maintained by multiple people I could imagine it being a real benefit over JS/React's syntactic overhead and dependence on conventions.
euroclydon 7y ago
It would be nice if there were a way to re-think what we have built on top of Node, and NPM or Yarn, to have a great front end framework built using a language with a standard library, rather than a jaw-dropping hierarchy of dependencies.
- thosakwe 7y ago
  There are already at least two languages like this I can think of with good standard libraries, and good frontend support (Elm and Dart). But adoption of both is low. I don't think it's a coincidence, nor do I think it's just a product of circumstances. People are still going to use JavaScript, no matter how many better things are out there.
gdotdesign 7y ago
Author of the language here, I think it is a major advantage for several reasons: - the documentation is in one place instead of several places - the dependencies of a Mint project is usually a few megabytes since everything is included instead of hundreds of megabytes (I have a production app that does not have any dependencies at all) - only need to learn one (compact) thing, instead of many complex things (complex since there is no compiler to make it simple) - only need to update the code once there is a new version of the language not every time there is a new version of a dependency On top of the libraries mentioned the language also includes a formatter, package manager, builder/dev server and testing environment, also for which you would need to add dependencies. All of these add up to less cognitive load so I can focus on building the product instead of managing the development environment. (edit: formatting)
- sdegutis 7y ago
  (Not GP.) You've clearly put a lot of work into this, a lot more than a lot of people could. I think a lot of people will gloss this over, but I thought about what I would want if I put the same amount of time and effort into something, and I would want honest feedback. > - the documentation is in one place instead of several places For developers with a few years experience, they don't generally have trouble finding documentation for disparate frameworks and languages. The bigger trouble is usually finding out the latest best practices. > - the dependencies of a Mint project is usually a few megabytes since everything is included instead of hundreds of megabytes (I have a production app that does not have any dependencies at all) There are a lot of use-cases where the bloat of the web app isn't really an issue. But for those who do (and I'm not sure who they are), it's still a somewhat unsolved problem. > - only need to learn one (compact) thing, instead of many complex things (complex since there is no compiler to make it simple) I don't think that's necessarily true. They would have to learn all the same concepts which exist within Mint. (And if not all the same concepts exist within Mint, then it's not up to par.) What's different is the syntax, and the semantics of how these concepts glue together within Mint. This generally means it's actually harder to learn a new all-on-one language than it is to learn React + TypeScript + styled-components for someone who already knows JS. > - only need to update the code once there is a new version of the language not every time there is a new version of a dependency Then how are the dependencies getting updated when there's a new version? If I use a currency library in my Mint app, how can I update it, and test it locally to make sure the updated library still works with my app? At some point we have to deal with dependencies and updating them...?
fnord77 7y ago
or react/reagent and clojurescript :)
chrshawkes 7y ago
My favorite part about Create A React App is the tens of thousands of reported bugs/issues, hidden black box magic configuration, 38,000 files, nearly 300MB of code for a hello world and the one way eject feature.
- a_wild_dandan 7y ago
  My favorite part about CRA is none of those things ever being an issue for me or my users, so I can prototype feature-rich apps in like a couple hours.
  - smt88 7y ago
    Security bugs are certainly among those thousands of logged issues, which means they are a problem for you and your users.
fo0blo0 7y ago
Yes totally. It can be fun implement but I doubt this will be adopted.

abathur 7y ago

Just to play devil's advocate, you may not see the advantage, because you already know about all of those options. There's a fair amount of library discovery/evaluation overhead needed to get a fresh start in the React ecosystem, and the people who have to do it often don't have the perspective/context to make good choices efficiently.

slantyyz 7y ago
It's also important to note that not all developers have the same constraints. If your employment prospects don't depend on using the major frameworks that everyone else is using, you're probably going to choose (or even create) a framework that best fits with the way you think and the way you like to work.
zackify 7y ago
Like they said, React router and the TS template for create react app. There’s your overhead discovery work to do an equivalent to this with react.
- simplify 7y ago
  create-react-app only does setup. And react router is by no means intuitive.
- CathedralBorrow 7y ago
  Equivalent to you maybe. Certainly not to me. Not that either one of us holds the absolute truth.
iudqnolq 7y ago
I started learning react a few weeks ago and I've been using react-router and thinking about learning styled components or something similar. I have a few years of "experience" with toy <5000LoC "webapps". I don't think they're that hard to discover, although I spent a while trying other Google searches before I realized react-training's react-router was the real router everyone mentions. Somehow their website seemed quite scammy, and I was very surprised routing wasn't in some sort of core/stdlib.

_bxg1 7y ago

The syntax is a little cleaner (and presumably more constrained). Only a little bit, but scaled across a large project maintained by multiple people I could imagine it being a real benefit over JS/React's syntactic overhead and dependence on conventions.

euroclydon 7y ago

It would be nice if there were a way to re-think what we have built on top of Node, and NPM or Yarn, to have a great front end framework built using a language with a standard library, rather than a jaw-dropping hierarchy of dependencies.

thosakwe 7y ago
There are already at least two languages like this I can think of with good standard libraries, and good frontend support (Elm and Dart). But adoption of both is low. I don't think it's a coincidence, nor do I think it's just a product of circumstances. People are still going to use JavaScript, no matter how many better things are out there.

gdotdesign 7y ago

Author of the language here, I think it is a major advantage for several reasons: - the documentation is in one place instead of several places - the dependencies of a Mint project is usually a few megabytes since everything is included instead of hundreds of megabytes (I have a production app that does not have any dependencies at all) - only need to learn one (compact) thing, instead of many complex things (complex since there is no compiler to make it simple) - only need to update the code once there is a new version of the language not every time there is a new version of a dependency On top of the libraries mentioned the language also includes a formatter, package manager, builder/dev server and testing environment, also for which you would need to add dependencies. All of these add up to less cognitive load so I can focus on building the product instead of managing the development environment. (edit: formatting)

sdegutis 7y ago
(Not GP.) You've clearly put a lot of work into this, a lot more than a lot of people could. I think a lot of people will gloss this over, but I thought about what I would want if I put the same amount of time and effort into something, and I would want honest feedback. > - the documentation is in one place instead of several places For developers with a few years experience, they don't generally have trouble finding documentation for disparate frameworks and languages. The bigger trouble is usually finding out the latest best practices. > - the dependencies of a Mint project is usually a few megabytes since everything is included instead of hundreds of megabytes (I have a production app that does not have any dependencies at all) There are a lot of use-cases where the bloat of the web app isn't really an issue. But for those who do (and I'm not sure who they are), it's still a somewhat unsolved problem. > - only need to learn one (compact) thing, instead of many complex things (complex since there is no compiler to make it simple) I don't think that's necessarily true. They would have to learn all the same concepts which exist within Mint. (And if not all the same concepts exist within Mint, then it's not up to par.) What's different is the syntax, and the semantics of how these concepts glue together within Mint. This generally means it's actually harder to learn a new all-on-one language than it is to learn React + TypeScript + styled-components for someone who already knows JS. > - only need to update the code once there is a new version of the language not every time there is a new version of a dependency Then how are the dependencies getting updated when there's a new version? If I use a currency library in my Mint app, how can I update it, and test it locally to make sure the updated library still works with my app? At some point we have to deal with dependencies and updating them...?

fnord77 7y ago

or react/reagent and clojurescript :)

chrshawkes 7y ago

My favorite part about Create A React App is the tens of thousands of reported bugs/issues, hidden black box magic configuration, 38,000 files, nearly 300MB of code for a hello world and the one way eject feature.

a_wild_dandan 7y ago
My favorite part about CRA is none of those things ever being an issue for me or my users, so I can prototype feature-rich apps in like a couple hours.
- smt88 7y ago
  Security bugs are certainly among those thousands of logged issues, which means they are a problem for you and your users.

fo0blo0 7y ago

Yes totally. It can be fun implement but I doubt this will be adopted.