6 ms·

Is it ok to be a jerk to jerks at office?

I was interviewing a new candidate today, and we do it in pairs. I try to be as nice to people interviewing as possible(given how tech interviews can be pretty stressful). However, the guy I was pairing with was not only being a bloody jerk, but he was also downright disrespectful(to the extent that he was pressing for an alternative solution to a problem which the candidate solved absolutely fine, and the jerk himself did not know of any other solution). Should I treat the pig the same way he treated this candidate(just to teach him a lesson) or maybe take the higher road?

orisho 7y ago
Wouldn't that make you a jerk too? I definitely wouldn't do anything "to teach somebody a lesson", that seems culturally unhealthy. Talk to them about the issue.
sswaner 7y ago
Take the high road. Your positive and professional example will prove more productive than behavior that will condone his own bad behavior.
techterrier 7y ago
No.
factorialboy 7y ago
What do you want to achieve by being a jerk to the jerk? Do you want to hurt them for their actions? Or do you want to transform them? Or you are happy with achieving your work goal not to be bothered with this side quest?
imvetri 7y ago
Teach a lesson. Feel good. Hit the road.
feintruled 7y ago
Definitely take the high road. To do otherwise might foster a toxic working atmosphere. I mean, you are already starting with one jerk, you don't need two. Plus, he wasn't actually rude to YOU, and anyone who saw you being rude to him might think you were at fault without context. You could pull him up - "Hey, you were a bit of a dick with that interviewee, what's up?" Or flag it up to your boss that your colleague uses interviews as a bit of a power trip.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cjslep 7y ago
You can try to teach him a lesson. It probably won't stick. Taking the high road doesn't mean doing nothing. There are professional ways to handle the jerk's unprofessionalism. You can use this to grow yourself, rather than trying to grow an unwilling jerk.
- ochronus 7y ago
  I'd argue it could stick. There might be a systemic issue in this case, such as no proper interview training present. This might be a good time suggesting something like that or at least doing pair practice. In my experience there are extremely few people actually trying to consciously be jerks regardless of how it looks from the other side.
ryannevius 7y ago
Let it come, let it be, let it go.
ariejan 7y ago
Or talk to him in private afterwards? Like adults? Explain how his _behaviour_ affected you and possibly the candidate as well. There's lots of reasons people act the way they do. Don't assume you know what his reasons are - talk to the guy and be open to have your mind changed by what he has to say.
- ochronus 7y ago
  Yesss, finally someone. Thank you.
- mercer 7y ago
  I'll add that Non-Violent Communication is an area that can help with issues like this.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
begemotz 7y ago
the problem is the minute you go down this road, most people are more inclined to start looking at a lot more people as 'jerks' to justify our own impulses toward jerky behavior...
Apreche 7y ago
No. Act professionally and report the jerk to HR.
- ochronus 7y ago
  sorry, but that's not professional. Try talking to him first.
  - bediger4000 7y ago
    I agree that going to HR isn't professional. HR works for the company, not for the employees. Whatever HR does, they have (from the viewpoint of the employees) corrupt and inscrutable motives, so their actions are less than predictable.
    - ochronus 7y ago
      That's not what I meant, actually - I've worked with amazing people from HR (and less amazing ones, too, ofc) - what I meant is owning the problem and trying to inspire change instead of 'reporting' someone the first time something like this happens. And, actually, in this case the company's reputation is at stake, too - word gets around quickly about sh.tty interview experiences.
      - bediger4000 7y ago
        Thanks for clarifying, those are good points as well. HR still works for the corporation, and has little interest in anything other than cost savings in general.
migstopheles 7y ago
The question here simply seems to be "is it OK to be a jerk?". I would say no.
seanhunter 7y ago
Firstly, do give timely feedback to the person after the candidate. They may not realise and we should always seek to help others to self-improve. Ideally this should be non-judgemental and impact-based. Maybe something along the lines of "Hey there, in that interview when you pressed for an alternative solution it didn't appear you were giving enough consideration to what the candidate had provided. If you alienate a prospective candidate, we damage our brand and don't just lose out on hiring them, we lose out on hiring any smart friends they may have." The idea is not to attribute intent but just to focus on impact. Read up on "non-violent communication" if you want practical pointers on how to do this. Secondly don't be a jerk but see this as an opportunity to show your character. To quote the Enchiridion of Epictetus: "Provoked by the sight of a handsome man or a beautiful woman, you will discover within you the contrary power of self-restraint. Faced with pain, you will discover the power of endurance. If you are insulted, you will discover patience. In time, you will grow to be confident that there is not a single impression that you will not have the moral means to tolerate. " This is something I personally really need to work on (seeing adversity as an opportunity to discover and reinforce resourcefulness within yourself).
kstenerud 7y ago
You take him aside and talk to him about his bad behavior and let him know why it's unacceptable. Responding in kind is childish, and only leads to escalation. If by "taking the high road" you mean to let it pass, that's also a bad idea, because the behavior will continue and now you'll be morally responsible for not saying anything. However, given that you've referred to him as a "pig", I'd suggest that you give yourself some time to calm down before talking to him. Talks like this go very badly if you don't have any empathy in reserve.
vectorEQ 7y ago
:')... don't adapt yourself to other peoples standards. be yourself regardless of people around you.
xaerise 7y ago
This is an perfectly fine example by the candidate to think outside the box and your colleague didn't notice that. Take the higher road and don't be a jerk. Your other colleagues might react differently to you then.
tomkarho 7y ago
The way I see it you have four roads to take. Each one with their own pros and cons. 1. Be the jerk. This will unfortunately mean that you will sacrifice any high moral ground (imao) you might have over the jerk since you have now stooped to his level. To quote a certain alien from a certain movie: "This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them." 2. Take the high road. This will avoid conflict but also will not resolve the source problem which might resurface again but it might just be someone elses problem 3. Take it up with him. Do it in private. Calmly and respectfully. Don't tell him he is being a jerk. Have a conversation about it. The difference? Ask him "do you think that was approriate?" Instead of "stop being a jerk" etc. Try to use language that doesn't put them on the defensive (very hard to do I admit) 4. Kick the problem upstairs. Talk to his superior/hr and tell them about the situation. They will handle it for you (or not). However when management gets involved, stakes go higher for all parties involved (including you being the "snitch").
ianai 7y ago
I’d consider mentioning how he handled the interview to who ever paired you with him. If management is just as jerky as him, though, I’d skip it. In the moment, I have realized bullies only honor other bullies. So being a jerk to him may be required. But consider what outcome you want to achieve before committing to that. It might work and he becomes less of a douche or it might make him even worse to work with. People like this are something like institutional herpes. You don’t know when or how he’ll rear up and try to tear you or someone or something else down. I think lesser skilled people think of such confrontations or disagreements as a way to look equal to people with actual skill or knowledge. Or they’re just thinking wins only come at the cost of losses to someone else. I’m reminded of an old game theoretic article comparing simple strategies in repeated games. The “tit for tat” algorithm had the best long term outcomes. It would break with the cooperative strategy anytime the opposing party would. I think it would stay that way until the other party cooperated, but it’s been a while. It might have just stayed non cooperative for eternity.
ochronus 7y ago
Depends on what you mean by "ok". Being a jerk to him might have some beneficial effects, mainly you yourself feeling better ("Now I've shown him, ha!") or maybe he realizes his wrong ways. I'd doubt the latter and the former doesn't help too much in the situation (unless you only care about your mood). I'd try talking to the guy first, with well formed arguments and especially leaving out the word "jerk" or synonyms. Walk him through how it probably felt for the candidate (in the usual form of 'when you did X, the candidate probably felt Y) and show them how it's actually bad for the hiring loop, candidate experience and the company's reputation. Show him alternatives, too. Offer pair practice. See how he reacts. If he doesn't react well to this, take it one level higher as this can very quickly get to hardly reversible bad results.
dojosensei 7y ago
First thing is to stop reacting emotionally to the jerk but rather rationally. Ask yourself why the jerk behaved the way he did. One could easily reason that it's not uncommon for the interviewer to talk down to an interviewee because they are looking for a job. As such, the interviewer feels like they are in a position of power. This is why top tech companies often make the interviewee do a lot of work and go through the rigorous process of multiple interviews before getting hired. They feel like they can do that in their authority position. However, this doesn't make it right. People who abuse their power shouldn't be in their authority position. An abuse of power is when they use their position to feel superior to others. It's likely the jerk has low self-esteem and was taking advantage of his position to feel superior to the candidate. Such people do not belong in authority positions. I would speak to your boss about his behavior and recommend the jerk not be the interviewer anymore for the reasons stated above.
NoCanDo 7y ago
Yes
segmondy 7y ago
Read this on Brilliant Jerks http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2017-11-13/brilliant-jerks.html http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2017-11-13/brilliant-jerks....
loopz 7y ago
Is it ok to sometimes be a jerk? Is the jerk capable of sometimes pass on being a jerk? It is OK to be yourself. Unless you're a jerk!
oceanghost 7y ago
"Jerk's don't know they're jerks, that's why they think you're the jerk." Don't violate your own standards of conduct, but don't put up with their shit either. Stand up for yourself, but politely.
arh68 7y ago
Unless you're a founder, just ask what the policy is. It could very well be your company's hiring process just sucks (as-is), and your colleague is coloring well within the lines. How does the company reconcile "solved absolutely fine" with "pressing for an alternative"? It could be settled by who gets trolled the hardest, yes, but it's hardly reliable. This seems like something worth talking about 1-1 with your manager, like over lunch. Is this behavior normal? Can I just not be paired with him?
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  > Can I just not be paired with him? Stronger: Can he never be allowed to interview ever again? He's going to cost your company qualified candidates. He's going to hurt your reputation as an employer.
  - arh68 7y ago
    Yeah, no disagreement there. Doing it right is first resort, avoidance is a last resort, and in between might involve a jungle of Is There A Process, can we change it, why not, does literally everyone else hate this guy too and is afraid to say anything, was this guy just hungry or something, is there some reason we can't fire him..&c&c and then maybe the last resort. I have barely any context, I don't want to speculate.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
Start with your own attitude. "Pig"? That's not OK. He's a human being, even if he is a jerk.

orisho 7y ago

Wouldn't that make you a jerk too? I definitely wouldn't do anything "to teach somebody a lesson", that seems culturally unhealthy. Talk to them about the issue.

sswaner 7y ago

Take the high road. Your positive and professional example will prove more productive than behavior that will condone his own bad behavior.

techterrier 7y ago

No.

factorialboy 7y ago

What do you want to achieve by being a jerk to the jerk? Do you want to hurt them for their actions? Or do you want to transform them? Or you are happy with achieving your work goal not to be bothered with this side quest?

imvetri 7y ago

Teach a lesson. Feel good. Hit the road.

feintruled 7y ago

Definitely take the high road. To do otherwise might foster a toxic working atmosphere. I mean, you are already starting with one jerk, you don't need two. Plus, he wasn't actually rude to YOU, and anyone who saw you being rude to him might think you were at fault without context. You could pull him up - "Hey, you were a bit of a dick with that interviewee, what's up?" Or flag it up to your boss that your colleague uses interviews as a bit of a power trip.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

cjslep 7y ago

You can try to teach him a lesson. It probably won't stick. Taking the high road doesn't mean doing nothing. There are professional ways to handle the jerk's unprofessionalism. You can use this to grow yourself, rather than trying to grow an unwilling jerk.

ochronus 7y ago
I'd argue it could stick. There might be a systemic issue in this case, such as no proper interview training present. This might be a good time suggesting something like that or at least doing pair practice. In my experience there are extremely few people actually trying to consciously be jerks regardless of how it looks from the other side.

ryannevius 7y ago

Let it come, let it be, let it go.

ariejan 7y ago

Or talk to him in private afterwards? Like adults? Explain how his _behaviour_ affected you and possibly the candidate as well. There's lots of reasons people act the way they do. Don't assume you know what his reasons are - talk to the guy and be open to have your mind changed by what he has to say.

ochronus 7y ago
Yesss, finally someone. Thank you.
mercer 7y ago
I'll add that Non-Violent Communication is an area that can help with issues like this.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

begemotz 7y ago

the problem is the minute you go down this road, most people are more inclined to start looking at a lot more people as 'jerks' to justify our own impulses toward jerky behavior...

Apreche 7y ago

No. Act professionally and report the jerk to HR.

ochronus 7y ago
sorry, but that's not professional. Try talking to him first.
- bediger4000 7y ago
  I agree that going to HR isn't professional. HR works for the company, not for the employees. Whatever HR does, they have (from the viewpoint of the employees) corrupt and inscrutable motives, so their actions are less than predictable.
  - ochronus 7y ago
    That's not what I meant, actually - I've worked with amazing people from HR (and less amazing ones, too, ofc) - what I meant is owning the problem and trying to inspire change instead of 'reporting' someone the first time something like this happens. And, actually, in this case the company's reputation is at stake, too - word gets around quickly about sh.tty interview experiences.
    - bediger4000 7y ago
      Thanks for clarifying, those are good points as well. HR still works for the corporation, and has little interest in anything other than cost savings in general.

migstopheles 7y ago

The question here simply seems to be "is it OK to be a jerk?". I would say no.

seanhunter 7y ago

Firstly, do give timely feedback to the person after the candidate. They may not realise and we should always seek to help others to self-improve. Ideally this should be non-judgemental and impact-based. Maybe something along the lines of "Hey there, in that interview when you pressed for an alternative solution it didn't appear you were giving enough consideration to what the candidate had provided. If you alienate a prospective candidate, we damage our brand and don't just lose out on hiring them, we lose out on hiring any smart friends they may have." The idea is not to attribute intent but just to focus on impact. Read up on "non-violent communication" if you want practical pointers on how to do this. Secondly don't be a jerk but see this as an opportunity to show your character. To quote the Enchiridion of Epictetus: "Provoked by the sight of a handsome man or a beautiful woman, you will discover within you the contrary power of self-restraint. Faced with pain, you will discover the power of endurance. If you are insulted, you will discover patience. In time, you will grow to be confident that there is not a single impression that you will not have the moral means to tolerate. " This is something I personally really need to work on (seeing adversity as an opportunity to discover and reinforce resourcefulness within yourself).

kstenerud 7y ago

You take him aside and talk to him about his bad behavior and let him know why it's unacceptable. Responding in kind is childish, and only leads to escalation. If by "taking the high road" you mean to let it pass, that's also a bad idea, because the behavior will continue and now you'll be morally responsible for not saying anything. However, given that you've referred to him as a "pig", I'd suggest that you give yourself some time to calm down before talking to him. Talks like this go very badly if you don't have any empathy in reserve.

vectorEQ 7y ago

:')... don't adapt yourself to other peoples standards. be yourself regardless of people around you.

xaerise 7y ago

This is an perfectly fine example by the candidate to think outside the box and your colleague didn't notice that. Take the higher road and don't be a jerk. Your other colleagues might react differently to you then.

tomkarho 7y ago

The way I see it you have four roads to take. Each one with their own pros and cons. 1. Be the jerk. This will unfortunately mean that you will sacrifice any high moral ground (imao) you might have over the jerk since you have now stooped to his level. To quote a certain alien from a certain movie: "This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them." 2. Take the high road. This will avoid conflict but also will not resolve the source problem which might resurface again but it might just be someone elses problem 3. Take it up with him. Do it in private. Calmly and respectfully. Don't tell him he is being a jerk. Have a conversation about it. The difference? Ask him "do you think that was approriate?" Instead of "stop being a jerk" etc. Try to use language that doesn't put them on the defensive (very hard to do I admit) 4. Kick the problem upstairs. Talk to his superior/hr and tell them about the situation. They will handle it for you (or not). However when management gets involved, stakes go higher for all parties involved (including you being the "snitch").

ianai 7y ago

I’d consider mentioning how he handled the interview to who ever paired you with him. If management is just as jerky as him, though, I’d skip it. In the moment, I have realized bullies only honor other bullies. So being a jerk to him may be required. But consider what outcome you want to achieve before committing to that. It might work and he becomes less of a douche or it might make him even worse to work with. People like this are something like institutional herpes. You don’t know when or how he’ll rear up and try to tear you or someone or something else down. I think lesser skilled people think of such confrontations or disagreements as a way to look equal to people with actual skill or knowledge. Or they’re just thinking wins only come at the cost of losses to someone else. I’m reminded of an old game theoretic article comparing simple strategies in repeated games. The “tit for tat” algorithm had the best long term outcomes. It would break with the cooperative strategy anytime the opposing party would. I think it would stay that way until the other party cooperated, but it’s been a while. It might have just stayed non cooperative for eternity.

ochronus 7y ago

Depends on what you mean by "ok". Being a jerk to him might have some beneficial effects, mainly you yourself feeling better ("Now I've shown him, ha!") or maybe he realizes his wrong ways. I'd doubt the latter and the former doesn't help too much in the situation (unless you only care about your mood). I'd try talking to the guy first, with well formed arguments and especially leaving out the word "jerk" or synonyms. Walk him through how it probably felt for the candidate (in the usual form of 'when you did X, the candidate probably felt Y) and show them how it's actually bad for the hiring loop, candidate experience and the company's reputation. Show him alternatives, too. Offer pair practice. See how he reacts. If he doesn't react well to this, take it one level higher as this can very quickly get to hardly reversible bad results.

dojosensei 7y ago

First thing is to stop reacting emotionally to the jerk but rather rationally. Ask yourself why the jerk behaved the way he did. One could easily reason that it's not uncommon for the interviewer to talk down to an interviewee because they are looking for a job. As such, the interviewer feels like they are in a position of power. This is why top tech companies often make the interviewee do a lot of work and go through the rigorous process of multiple interviews before getting hired. They feel like they can do that in their authority position. However, this doesn't make it right. People who abuse their power shouldn't be in their authority position. An abuse of power is when they use their position to feel superior to others. It's likely the jerk has low self-esteem and was taking advantage of his position to feel superior to the candidate. Such people do not belong in authority positions. I would speak to your boss about his behavior and recommend the jerk not be the interviewer anymore for the reasons stated above.

NoCanDo 7y ago

Yes

segmondy 7y ago

Read this on Brilliant Jerks http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2017-11-13/brilliant-jerks.html http://www.brendangregg.com/blog/2017-11-13/brilliant-jerks....

loopz 7y ago

Is it ok to sometimes be a jerk? Is the jerk capable of sometimes pass on being a jerk? It is OK to be yourself. Unless you're a jerk!

oceanghost 7y ago

"Jerk's don't know they're jerks, that's why they think you're the jerk." Don't violate your own standards of conduct, but don't put up with their shit either. Stand up for yourself, but politely.

arh68 7y ago

Unless you're a founder, just ask what the policy is. It could very well be your company's hiring process just sucks (as-is), and your colleague is coloring well within the lines. How does the company reconcile "solved absolutely fine" with "pressing for an alternative"? It could be settled by who gets trolled the hardest, yes, but it's hardly reliable. This seems like something worth talking about 1-1 with your manager, like over lunch. Is this behavior normal? Can I just not be paired with him?

AnimalMuppet 7y ago
> Can I just not be paired with him? Stronger: Can he never be allowed to interview ever again? He's going to cost your company qualified candidates. He's going to hurt your reputation as an employer.
- arh68 7y ago
  Yeah, no disagreement there. Doing it right is first resort, avoidance is a last resort, and in between might involve a jungle of Is There A Process, can we change it, why not, does literally everyone else hate this guy too and is afraid to say anything, was this guy just hungry or something, is there some reason we can't fire him..&c&c and then maybe the last resort. I have barely any context, I don't want to speculate.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

Start with your own attitude. "Pig"? That's not OK. He's a human being, even if he is a jerk.