4 ms·

It’s not always better. One good case for cloud-linked would be when someone breaks in and steals the DVR. It also doesn’t need to constantly upload, because m

It’s not always better. One good case for cloud-linked would be when someone breaks in and steals the DVR. It also doesn’t need to constantly upload, because most have motion detection to only upload interesting events to the cloud.

Jamwinner 7y ago
And encrypt them locally before upload.
amluto 7y ago
Sure, but what thieves actually do is cut your cable/phone line, thus disabling most cloud surveillance systems.
- dpark 7y ago
  Do they really? Because I’m pretty sure that’s a movie trope. Sneaking around the property looking for the cable and telephone lines seems like a great way to get caught by a camera.
  - aedron 7y ago
    Yeah. Alarm systems are all on cellular and trigger on loss of power.
  - amluto 7y ago
    I know someone it happened to.
- bronco21016 7y ago
  Smart thief would just flood the WiFi network with deauth packets since everyone is using these things over WiFi. Disabled it before you even have to be in view.
  - c0restraint 7y ago
    Remind me:don’t you need to be connected to the WPA2 WiFi router to send deauth packets?
    - judge2020 7y ago
      Actually no, you can send deauth without already knowing the key. It's a good way to force clients onto your rogue AP and then obtain the key via captive portal. https://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=deauthentication https://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=deauthentication
    - nkurz 7y ago
      No, that would sort of defeat the purpose. The deauth's are commonly used to try to capture the connection handshake so that one can then (offline) try to figure out the network's password. The management frames (such as deauth) are not encrypted, and one needs only the easily eavesdropped details of client and server MAC to spoof them: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/190133/why-does-a-deauth-attack-work-on-wpa2-despite-encryption https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/190133/why-does...
  - atomi 7y ago
    There are also signal jammers which I believe are _highly_ illegal.
    - PappaPatat 7y ago
      Depends entirely on the frequency, jurisdiction and purpose.
    - beatgammit 7y ago
      So is breaking and entering. I doubt most determined thieves are going to be deterred by something being illegal. Your typical junkie isn't going to do that, so you're mostly looking at attackers going after higher end neighborhoods or middle tier business campuses.
AnthonyMouse 7y ago
> One good case for cloud-linked would be when someone breaks in and steals the DVR. That's a pretty uncommon edge case considering that it's usually easier to disable the camera to begin with, e.g. with a paintball gun, than to track down and remove a DVR which could be in an unknown and arbitrarily well-secured location within the building -- or even outside of it. Just because the video storage isn't in the cloud doesn't mean it can't still be offsite.
- pixl97 7y ago
  Eh, disabling the camera is also risky. First carrying a paintball gun is a great way to get shot in many places in the US on its own, especially when committing another crime. Second, by the time you've disabled the camera it is very likely you're already on the film somewhere. And it also depends on how serious of crime one is committing. When working for defense attorneys years ago, it was not uncommon to be on a case involving data recovery by the FBI because a person lit the building on fire because there was a camera in their somewhere.
- outworlder 7y ago
  > which could be in an unknown and arbitrarily well-secured location within the building -- or even outside of it. Just because the video storage isn't in the cloud doesn't mean it can't still be offsite. Right. Ring is usually placed in homes. Where is the well-secured location in your average home?
  - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
    > Right. Ring is usually placed in homes. Where is the well-secured location in your average home? A DVR can be smaller than a Raspberry Pi. Remove any random electrical outlet in the house, put the DVR in the wall behind it and then replace the outlet. Or put it on the underside of your washing machine etc. Can't remove it if you have to disassemble the whole house to find it. Or just put it inside a safe which is bolted down. There are safes with interior electrical outlets.

Jamwinner 7y ago

And encrypt them locally before upload.

amluto 7y ago

Sure, but what thieves actually do is cut your cable/phone line, thus disabling most cloud surveillance systems.

dpark 7y ago
Do they really? Because I’m pretty sure that’s a movie trope. Sneaking around the property looking for the cable and telephone lines seems like a great way to get caught by a camera.
- aedron 7y ago
  Yeah. Alarm systems are all on cellular and trigger on loss of power.
- amluto 7y ago
  I know someone it happened to.
bronco21016 7y ago
Smart thief would just flood the WiFi network with deauth packets since everyone is using these things over WiFi. Disabled it before you even have to be in view.
- c0restraint 7y ago
  Remind me:don’t you need to be connected to the WPA2 WiFi router to send deauth packets?
  - judge2020 7y ago
    Actually no, you can send deauth without already knowing the key. It's a good way to force clients onto your rogue AP and then obtain the key via captive portal. https://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=deauthentication https://www.aircrack-ng.org/doku.php?id=deauthentication
  - nkurz 7y ago
    No, that would sort of defeat the purpose. The deauth's are commonly used to try to capture the connection handshake so that one can then (offline) try to figure out the network's password. The management frames (such as deauth) are not encrypted, and one needs only the easily eavesdropped details of client and server MAC to spoof them: https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/190133/why-does-a-deauth-attack-work-on-wpa2-despite-encryption https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/190133/why-does...
- atomi 7y ago
  There are also signal jammers which I believe are _highly_ illegal.
  - PappaPatat 7y ago
    Depends entirely on the frequency, jurisdiction and purpose.
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    So is breaking and entering. I doubt most determined thieves are going to be deterred by something being illegal. Your typical junkie isn't going to do that, so you're mostly looking at attackers going after higher end neighborhoods or middle tier business campuses.

AnthonyMouse 7y ago

> One good case for cloud-linked would be when someone breaks in and steals the DVR. That's a pretty uncommon edge case considering that it's usually easier to disable the camera to begin with, e.g. with a paintball gun, than to track down and remove a DVR which could be in an unknown and arbitrarily well-secured location within the building -- or even outside of it. Just because the video storage isn't in the cloud doesn't mean it can't still be offsite.

pixl97 7y ago
Eh, disabling the camera is also risky. First carrying a paintball gun is a great way to get shot in many places in the US on its own, especially when committing another crime. Second, by the time you've disabled the camera it is very likely you're already on the film somewhere. And it also depends on how serious of crime one is committing. When working for defense attorneys years ago, it was not uncommon to be on a case involving data recovery by the FBI because a person lit the building on fire because there was a camera in their somewhere.
outworlder 7y ago
> which could be in an unknown and arbitrarily well-secured location within the building -- or even outside of it. Just because the video storage isn't in the cloud doesn't mean it can't still be offsite. Right. Ring is usually placed in homes. Where is the well-secured location in your average home?
- AnthonyMouse 7y ago
  > Right. Ring is usually placed in homes. Where is the well-secured location in your average home? A DVR can be smaller than a Raspberry Pi. Remove any random electrical outlet in the house, put the DVR in the wall behind it and then replace the outlet. Or put it on the underside of your washing machine etc. Can't remove it if you have to disassemble the whole house to find it. Or just put it inside a safe which is bolted down. There are safes with interior electrical outlets.