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> In 1967, Mao’s Red Guards took to the streets determined to root out the ‘four olds’ of traditional Chinese culture, killing hundreds of thousands in the proc

> In 1967, Mao’s Red Guards took to the streets determined to root out the ‘four olds’ of traditional Chinese culture, killing hundreds of thousands in the process. There’s a lot of parallels to Mao and what we’re witnessing in culture today. Another example is Mao’s use of “thought examinations” to consolidate power and influence.

kerkeslager 7y ago
I certainly see the parallels: both Mao and groups in modern Western culture are trying to control thought at the expense of free speech. But let's not overstate this: nobody is going door to door and carting people off in hoods for their ideas.
- redisman 7y ago
  > But let's not overstate this: nobody is going door to door and carting people off in hoods for their ideas. Let me re-introduce you to China and Russia
  - thrownmeawaypls 7y ago
    or the UK policing tweets with real police and real jail.
    - kerkeslager 7y ago
      I wasn't aware of this. Links?
      - leftyted 7y ago
        Hate speech is illegal in the UK. This means you can report social media posts and the police will knock on the poster's door (I guess if they can figure out who it is) and "investigate". https://twitter.com/syptweet/status/1038891067381350401?s=20 https://twitter.com/syptweet/status/1038891067381350401?s=20 See also: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-peo...
        DanBC 7y ago
        Your first link literally say it's not a crime. > please report non-crime hate incidents,
        leftyted 7y ago
        If you clicked the link, why quote it out of context? > In addition to reporting hate crime, please report non-crime hate incidents, which can include things like offensive or insulting comments, online, in person or in writing. Hate will not be tolerated in South Yorkshire. Report it and put a stop to it #HateHurtsSY In addition to reporting hate crime... Anyway, it's quite easy to verify that hate speech is illegal in the UK. Plenty of people have been prosecuted for it.
        Teever 7y ago
        I don't understand the confusion here. The quote clearly distinguishes between crime and non crime actions yet still encourages people to report non-crimes to the police. This is unacceptable thought-crime type stuff. "Hate will not be tolerated in South Yorkshire" is also a disturbing sentence because hate is a totally normal, and healthy emotion to have. I hate the taste of parsley. I hate racists. I hate being caught in the rain with a flat tire, but more of all I hate the idea that the police would do these kinds of things.
      - thrownmeawaypls 7y ago
        A total of 625 arrests were made for alleged section 127 offences in 2010 – a number which had ballooned to 857 by 2015. During the years 2010-2015 2,130 people were arrested between 2010 and 2015 for “sending by public communication network an offensive / indecent / obscene / menacing message / matter” – which is a criminal offence under section 127. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/02/social_media_arrests_up_37pc_london_section_127_communications_act/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/02/social_media_arrest... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-man-jailed-over-facebook-status-raises-questions-over-free-speech/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-man-jailed-over-facebook-sta... (2012) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7415233/Mother-arrested-calling-trans-woman-man-Twitter-charged-trolling.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7415233/Mother-arre... (2019)
        DanBC 7y ago
        > A total of 625 arrests were made for alleged section 127 offences in 2010 – a number which had ballooned to 857 by 2015. There's a very low bar to being arrested in England. The arrest rate isn't important, it's the conviction rate that you need to be presenting. Also, the law is developing (because that's how a system with case law works) so you need to be showing what's happening now, not ten years ago. That last link isn't a great example. She engaged in a long running campaign of harassment, using two twitter accounts to harass and defame someone, including leaking financial and medical information. There's a reason the Daily Mail isn't a reliable source for wikipedia. These conversations always seem to place the right of some cunt to behave like an utter cunt above the rights of all the people who have to interact with that person to be protected from protracted campaigns of harassment. The UK and EU sees protecting the rights of others, protecting them from harassment and defamation, to be a legitimate aim. Here's the Crown Prosecution Service page for communications offences committed on social media: https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/social-media-guidelines-prosecuting-cases-involving-communications-sent-social-media https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/social-media-guideline...
        3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
        > The arrest rate isn't important, it's the conviction rate that you need to be presenting. Emphatically disagree. A slogan of totalitarian government is “the process is the punishment.” — no conviction necessary.
      - onlydeadheroes 7y ago
        Teenager with Asperger’s placed under house arrest, fined over £500 for asking police officer’s gender https://caldronpool.com/teenager-with-aspergers-placed-under-house-arrest-fined-800-for-asking-police-officers-gender/ https://caldronpool.com/teenager-with-aspergers-placed-under...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    I was talking about Western culture, as I believe the article was--obviously there are totalitarian governments around the world.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  Not yet. Tell me again why you don’t think agents of the government would do awful things in the name of the people and law and order? We live in an era where people are accumulating power by breaking boundaries.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    > Tell me again why you don’t think agents of the government would do awful things in the name of the people and law and order? Who said I didn't think that? I just don't think they're doing it on a large scale now. We should remain vigilant, but be mindful of where we are as well.
- Bubbadoo 7y ago
  Exactly... not yet. Given the tenor of the social justice warriors and the extreme right's proclivity towards kaos, I am not surprised by any measure of craziness we're seeing in our once stable country.
  - mcguire 7y ago
    Psst! It wasn't ever really all that stable.
- legostormtroopr 7y ago
  > nobody is going door to door and carting people off in hoods for their ideas They don't need to, social media throws peoples lifes wide open. How many people have lost jobs because of internet outrage?
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  No, but people are trying to ruin wrong-thinker's lives in other ways, like obsessively contacting their employer about their "problematic" behavior trying to get them fired, imitating them online and posting absolutely beyond the pale material, obsessively contacting anyone/group that supports the person and trying to get them dumped, etc. But yes no one is being kidnapped by these people. Just attempts to drive them to suicide or financial ruin
  - 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
    This is a really chilling phenomena of our age, and I wish there were more downward societal pressure against it. The scariest part is that they really believe they’re acting in the public good, and the ends will justify their means.
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  > Unpopular ideas can be silenced, and inconvenient facts kept dark, without the need for any official ban. Anyone who has lived long in a foreign country will know of instances of sensational items of news — things which on their own merits would get the big headlines-being kept right out of the British press, not because the Government intervened but because of a general tacit agreement that ‘it wouldn’t do’ to mention that particular fact. So far as the daily newspapers go, this is easy to understand. The British press is extremely centralised, and most of it is owned by wealthy men who have every motive to be dishonest on certain important topics. But the same kind of veiled censorship also operates in books and periodicals, as well as in plays, films and radio. At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is ‘not done’ to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was ‘not done’ to mention trousers in the presence of a lady. Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given a fair hearing, either in the popular press or in the highbrow periodicals. -- George Orwell, http://orwell.ru/library/novels/Animal_Farm/english/efp_go http://orwell.ru/library/novels/Animal_Farm/english/efp_go
- mcguire 7y ago
  Well, not yet.
floren 7y ago
Or the struggle session (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session), currently very popular on social media.
mcguire 7y ago
Or Puritanism. And the various anti-Communist flaps.

kerkeslager 7y ago

I certainly see the parallels: both Mao and groups in modern Western culture are trying to control thought at the expense of free speech. But let's not overstate this: nobody is going door to door and carting people off in hoods for their ideas.

redisman 7y ago
> But let's not overstate this: nobody is going door to door and carting people off in hoods for their ideas. Let me re-introduce you to China and Russia
- thrownmeawaypls 7y ago
  or the UK policing tweets with real police and real jail.
  - kerkeslager 7y ago
    I wasn't aware of this. Links?
    - leftyted 7y ago
      Hate speech is illegal in the UK. This means you can report social media posts and the police will knock on the poster's door (I guess if they can figure out who it is) and "investigate". https://twitter.com/syptweet/status/1038891067381350401?s=20 https://twitter.com/syptweet/status/1038891067381350401?s=20 See also: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-peo...
      - DanBC 7y ago
        Your first link literally say it's not a crime. > please report non-crime hate incidents,
        leftyted 7y ago
        If you clicked the link, why quote it out of context? > In addition to reporting hate crime, please report non-crime hate incidents, which can include things like offensive or insulting comments, online, in person or in writing. Hate will not be tolerated in South Yorkshire. Report it and put a stop to it #HateHurtsSY In addition to reporting hate crime... Anyway, it's quite easy to verify that hate speech is illegal in the UK. Plenty of people have been prosecuted for it.
        Teever 7y ago
        I don't understand the confusion here. The quote clearly distinguishes between crime and non crime actions yet still encourages people to report non-crimes to the police. This is unacceptable thought-crime type stuff. "Hate will not be tolerated in South Yorkshire" is also a disturbing sentence because hate is a totally normal, and healthy emotion to have. I hate the taste of parsley. I hate racists. I hate being caught in the rain with a flat tire, but more of all I hate the idea that the police would do these kinds of things.
    - thrownmeawaypls 7y ago
      A total of 625 arrests were made for alleged section 127 offences in 2010 – a number which had ballooned to 857 by 2015. During the years 2010-2015 2,130 people were arrested between 2010 and 2015 for “sending by public communication network an offensive / indecent / obscene / menacing message / matter” – which is a criminal offence under section 127. https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/02/social_media_arrests_up_37pc_london_section_127_communications_act/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/02/social_media_arrest... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-man-jailed-over-facebook-status-raises-questions-over-free-speech/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-man-jailed-over-facebook-sta... (2012) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7415233/Mother-arrested-calling-trans-woman-man-Twitter-charged-trolling.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7415233/Mother-arre... (2019)
      - DanBC 7y ago
        > A total of 625 arrests were made for alleged section 127 offences in 2010 – a number which had ballooned to 857 by 2015. There's a very low bar to being arrested in England. The arrest rate isn't important, it's the conviction rate that you need to be presenting. Also, the law is developing (because that's how a system with case law works) so you need to be showing what's happening now, not ten years ago. That last link isn't a great example. She engaged in a long running campaign of harassment, using two twitter accounts to harass and defame someone, including leaking financial and medical information. There's a reason the Daily Mail isn't a reliable source for wikipedia. These conversations always seem to place the right of some cunt to behave like an utter cunt above the rights of all the people who have to interact with that person to be protected from protracted campaigns of harassment. The UK and EU sees protecting the rights of others, protecting them from harassment and defamation, to be a legitimate aim. Here's the Crown Prosecution Service page for communications offences committed on social media: https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/social-media-guidelines-prosecuting-cases-involving-communications-sent-social-media https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/social-media-guideline...
        3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
        > The arrest rate isn't important, it's the conviction rate that you need to be presenting. Emphatically disagree. A slogan of totalitarian government is “the process is the punishment.” — no conviction necessary.
    - onlydeadheroes 7y ago
      Teenager with Asperger’s placed under house arrest, fined over £500 for asking police officer’s gender https://caldronpool.com/teenager-with-aspergers-placed-under-house-arrest-fined-800-for-asking-police-officers-gender/ https://caldronpool.com/teenager-with-aspergers-placed-under...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  I was talking about Western culture, as I believe the article was--obviously there are totalitarian governments around the world.
Spooky23 7y ago
Not yet. Tell me again why you don’t think agents of the government would do awful things in the name of the people and law and order? We live in an era where people are accumulating power by breaking boundaries.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  > Tell me again why you don’t think agents of the government would do awful things in the name of the people and law and order? Who said I didn't think that? I just don't think they're doing it on a large scale now. We should remain vigilant, but be mindful of where we are as well.
Bubbadoo 7y ago
Exactly... not yet. Given the tenor of the social justice warriors and the extreme right's proclivity towards kaos, I am not surprised by any measure of craziness we're seeing in our once stable country.
- mcguire 7y ago
  Psst! It wasn't ever really all that stable.
legostormtroopr 7y ago
> nobody is going door to door and carting people off in hoods for their ideas They don't need to, social media throws peoples lifes wide open. How many people have lost jobs because of internet outrage?
oh_sigh 7y ago
No, but people are trying to ruin wrong-thinker's lives in other ways, like obsessively contacting their employer about their "problematic" behavior trying to get them fired, imitating them online and posting absolutely beyond the pale material, obsessively contacting anyone/group that supports the person and trying to get them dumped, etc. But yes no one is being kidnapped by these people. Just attempts to drive them to suicide or financial ruin
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  This is a really chilling phenomena of our age, and I wish there were more downward societal pressure against it. The scariest part is that they really believe they’re acting in the public good, and the ends will justify their means.
PavlovsCat 7y ago
> Unpopular ideas can be silenced, and inconvenient facts kept dark, without the need for any official ban. Anyone who has lived long in a foreign country will know of instances of sensational items of news — things which on their own merits would get the big headlines-being kept right out of the British press, not because the Government intervened but because of a general tacit agreement that ‘it wouldn’t do’ to mention that particular fact. So far as the daily newspapers go, this is easy to understand. The British press is extremely centralised, and most of it is owned by wealthy men who have every motive to be dishonest on certain important topics. But the same kind of veiled censorship also operates in books and periodicals, as well as in plays, films and radio. At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to say this, that or the other, but it is ‘not done’ to say it, just as in mid-Victorian times it was ‘not done’ to mention trousers in the presence of a lady. Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given a fair hearing, either in the popular press or in the highbrow periodicals. -- George Orwell, http://orwell.ru/library/novels/Animal_Farm/english/efp_go http://orwell.ru/library/novels/Animal_Farm/english/efp_go
mcguire 7y ago
Well, not yet.

floren 7y ago

Or the struggle session (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session), currently very popular on social media.

mcguire 7y ago

Or Puritanism. And the various anti-Communist flaps.