3 ms·

Sure, I'm not saying I couldn't make more if I left Toronto. As a Canadian, it would be easy for me to do that. Most of my office could easily get jobs in the U

by mabbo 7y ago

Sure, I'm not saying I couldn't make more if I left Toronto. As a Canadian, it would be easy for me to do that. Most of my office could easily get jobs in the USA paying more. Even those with potential visa issues have a much easier time once they're established in Canada. But we don't. The marginal increase in my pay is not enough for me to want to move to the USA. The anti-immigrant rhetoric and the laws that follow that rhetoric make it not a place I, or many others, aspire to move to. We're happier to make less money, but feel more secure and safe (in many ways).

blaser-waffle 7y ago
That's not marginal, that's damn near 40%, ballpark of 80k USD per year difference. That's close to $100K CAD per year. And while the current state of play in the US is rather odious, the idea that you'd be less secure or safe in somewhere like NYC or SF is laughable. The only places I've even been accosted on the street were in Melbourne, Australia and Brampton, Ontario. The rhetoric and laws you dread are mostly, or entirely, perception; make no mistake they're a thing, but heavily magnified by a media machine based on getting eyeballs and reactions. Like, the Prairie Provinces are solidly conservative -- AB even took a crack at banning gay marriage a little while back -- and ON managed to vote in yet another Ford. I'm happy to sit out the Trump years north of the border, but if an offer with another $100K on top of what I'm making now floated my way but required me to be in California, or NYC, or DC, I'd be hard pressed to ignore it.
- mabbo 7y ago
  > That's close to $100K CAD per year. Possibly more. Again, I'm okay with that. > the idea that you'd be less secure or safe in somewhere like NYC or SF is laughable Secure has many meanings beyond the fear of criminals. Who wants to start a family knowing that the government may change its rules and kick you out of the country next year? Who wants to start a business knowing that their country just got put "on a list". And worst of all, who wants to hire someone from another country, knowing that they might be deported if they don't win a lottery in the next 3 years? > if an offer with another $100K on top of what I'm making now floated my way but required me to be in California, or NYC, or DC, I'd be hard pressed to ignore it. Right, that's your marginal cost to deal with that stuff. Everyone has one. I have one. But as the life for immigrants in the US gets made more difficult, the average marginal cost to deal with that nonsense goes up- and I get more coworkers here in Toronto. And I'll tell you right now: go looking, you'll find such an offer if you want it.
wenc 7y ago
For what it's worth, Toronto is a way more interesting city than Seattle, DC and SF. It's probably comparable to Chicago in terms of interestingness (though Toronto's food scene is way more dynamic). NYC and LA have Toronto beat in terms of culture, but NYC living is not that fun, and LA is pretty expensive too. I would say Toronto is a local optimum.

by mabbo 7y ago

blaser-waffle 7y ago

That's not marginal, that's damn near 40%, ballpark of 80k USD per year difference. That's close to $100K CAD per year. And while the current state of play in the US is rather odious, the idea that you'd be less secure or safe in somewhere like NYC or SF is laughable. The only places I've even been accosted on the street were in Melbourne, Australia and Brampton, Ontario. The rhetoric and laws you dread are mostly, or entirely, perception; make no mistake they're a thing, but heavily magnified by a media machine based on getting eyeballs and reactions. Like, the Prairie Provinces are solidly conservative -- AB even took a crack at banning gay marriage a little while back -- and ON managed to vote in yet another Ford. I'm happy to sit out the Trump years north of the border, but if an offer with another $100K on top of what I'm making now floated my way but required me to be in California, or NYC, or DC, I'd be hard pressed to ignore it.

mabbo 7y ago
> That's close to $100K CAD per year. Possibly more. Again, I'm okay with that. > the idea that you'd be less secure or safe in somewhere like NYC or SF is laughable Secure has many meanings beyond the fear of criminals. Who wants to start a family knowing that the government may change its rules and kick you out of the country next year? Who wants to start a business knowing that their country just got put "on a list". And worst of all, who wants to hire someone from another country, knowing that they might be deported if they don't win a lottery in the next 3 years? > if an offer with another $100K on top of what I'm making now floated my way but required me to be in California, or NYC, or DC, I'd be hard pressed to ignore it. Right, that's your marginal cost to deal with that stuff. Everyone has one. I have one. But as the life for immigrants in the US gets made more difficult, the average marginal cost to deal with that nonsense goes up- and I get more coworkers here in Toronto. And I'll tell you right now: go looking, you'll find such an offer if you want it.

wenc 7y ago

For what it's worth, Toronto is a way more interesting city than Seattle, DC and SF. It's probably comparable to Chicago in terms of interestingness (though Toronto's food scene is way more dynamic). NYC and LA have Toronto beat in terms of culture, but NYC living is not that fun, and LA is pretty expensive too. I would say Toronto is a local optimum.