6 ms·

More advice: don't get carried away with liquid cooling solutions - they will always leak eventually, and if the pump fails your CPU instantly fries. Just get

by dTal 7y ago

More advice: don't get carried away with liquid cooling solutions - they will always leak eventually, and if the pump fails your CPU instantly fries. Just get the biggest honking Noctua fan+heatsink you can fit in your case and call it good. It's silent, simple, reliable, and if the fan does fail the heatsink will save your CPU.

deadbunny 7y ago
If the pump fails the CPU will thermal shutdown and be fine once you've replace the cooler/pump. Also not sure if you're counting AIO coolers in with water cooling but they are very reliable.
- simias 7y ago
  I agree with you that a properly designed CPU shouldn't instantly fry for lack of cooling but is water cooling really worth it? As far as I can tell outside of very esoteric special-purpose equipment it seem very uncommon in the professional world and seems mostly popular with g4m3rs looking to impress their peers with their $10k gaming PC builds. In my experience air cooling with a sufficiently large heatsink is simple and very reliable. Water cooling is more expensive, trickier and can fail catastrophically.
  - deadbunny 7y ago
    I use the AIO water cooler on my home system because I can get the system essentially silent (0.5m from my ears) at reasonable temps. They are also a lot less fiddily to deal with (install, ram access, etc...) compared to the huge air cooler you would need for comparable performance IMO.
    - idsout 7y ago
      All in One (AIO) also known as a closed loop cooler for the uninitiated. They're water coolers that come in a single pre-built piece that you just attach like any fan. Source: Been rocking Corsair AIO coolers for around a decade now. I did have have the pump fail in one of them after around seven years of use.
  - jorvi 7y ago
    Is not about cooling performance but noise reduction. You need fewer fans and can use bigger ones (= less RPM) giving you a double whammy of noise reduction.
- dTal 7y ago
  In theory. I've heard many unscientific anecdotes of CPUs being killed this way. My understanding is that in a liquid cooling system without flow, or with no cooling system attached at all, delta-temp over delta-t is so high that the thermal cutoff circuits might not react fast enough before other parts of the chip have been damaged - especially if the chip is under load at the moment of failure. On the other hand, a heatsink provides a decent amount of passive cooling all by itself, so when the fan fails there's a buffer that slows the rate of heating to a safe margin.
  - leeter 7y ago
    That is incorrect, the thermal protection circuits operate well in advance of the actual junction death temperature. Usually 20C or so minimum on mobile and more on Desktop. The CPU will throttle like mad first to save itself and then just reset the computer assuming the BIOS doesn't block the boot in the first place.
  - mint2 7y ago
    My be quiet heat sink is giant and came with two fans. And I have the ability to add a third. If one of the two fans fail i’d guess temps may raise a few degrees and that’s it. I could even manually test it with one fan and light loads to check one fan performance.
  - BubRoss 7y ago
    Modern CPUs adjust to their level of cooling. They don't 'burn up' even if there is no heat sink at all. What you are saying sounds like it is either fear based hyperbole, rumors from over 20 years ago, or both.
  - bitL 7y ago
    My TR4 II 360 OC AIO's pump failed recently; it took about 1 hour of intense Deep Learning training to reach 100 degrees at which point the motherboard shut down. I was dumbfounded about what was happening, then after ruling out Titan RTX, power supply etc. problems I noticed a slow climb of CPU temperature. AIO manufacturer didn't even ask for anything and sent a replacement right away and computer is happily number crunching again.
short_sells_poo 7y ago
This is completely anecdotal of course but for the 8 years I've been running watercooled PCs (admittedly professionally built), I never had a leak. Or a pump fail for that matter, but even if one did fail, the CPU will shut off. Furthermore, you are supposed to use distilled water or non-water based coolants with high electric resistance.
- leonroy 7y ago
  Shameless plug but I’ve built a bunch of water cooled computers and even the more reliable ones like the Swiftech build below with John Guest push fits (rated for 25 years use) do eventually leak. https://www.leonroy.com/oldsite/img/IMG_1802%20(Large).JPG https://www.leonroy.com/oldsite/img/IMG_1802%20(Large).JPG Regarding distilled water, it is indeed not very conductive at all but it is also quite reactive and if it touches electrical traces and PCBs starts to leach ions from the surrounding until it starts to conduct at which point the machine will short circuit (speaking from first hand experience alas).
  - kinleyd 7y ago
    OK then, big assed Noctua fans it shall be for me.
    - kjax 7y ago
      I did this for my 3950x, and it works well. The temps on the CPU still spike up quickly and generate a bit of fan noise under brief loads, but apparently that's quite standard for this platform.
      - wil421 7y ago
        Are you happy with the 3950x? I’m looking at the 3950x and 3900x. I’m not sure if the extra $250 is worth it. It’s replacing a i7-7700k so either one will be a nice upgrade.
        7y ago
Zardoz84 7y ago
> and if the pump fails your CPU instantly fries. Perhaps if you don't forget to activate the BIOS CPU warning at high temp, you shouldn't worry about this . I recently fixed a PC where the pump died without anyone noticed, and the only evidence, was that the BIOS was powering off the computer when the CPU gets too hot.
Sammi 7y ago
I have been using these big honking Noctua coolers for my last two build. They are truly completely silent when idle. You have to put your head directly next to the case to hear them at all when you're just browsing or doing light tasks. And they only give a reasonable amount of clean fan noise when running max. No squeaking or annoying peaking frequencies. Coupled with high quality power supplies that are also virtually silent, this makes for dream PCs.
72deluxe 7y ago
What about the sealed liquid coolers, eg. Antec? I have one on top of an 8086K I won (thanks Intel). Do I need to panic?
lnsru 7y ago
Thank you for this advice! I’ll have build with 3950X in close future and was keen on installing liquid cooling solution. But now I’ll end with classic fan+heatsink for longevity. Current system is an old FX-8350.
jankotek 7y ago
I have 2600k under water cooling for 8 years, uptime is probably 25%.
BubRoss 7y ago
People run water cooling loops for years and years. It's just plumbing, there is no reason it has to leak. Also modern CPUs have internal temperature sensors of course and don't 'burn up'. This sounds like someone who is afraid of water cooling, not someone familiar with it.
- yellowapple 7y ago
  > It's just plumbing, there is no reason it has to leak. The first rule of plumbing is that it's guaranteed to eventually leak. (I don't know if this is actually a rule of plumbing, let alone the first one, but it sounds like it should be)
  - BubRoss 7y ago
    None of what you just said has any basis in reality
ajross 7y ago
CPUs are supposed to throttle before thermal damage. I don't think I've ever seen a report of an actual CPU failures due to cooling failure. Also, FWIW: integrated liquid cooling solutions are if anything simpler and more reliable devices than fans: smaller motors running at lower RPM last longer.
wil421 7y ago
My current system was water cooled and the pump failed. My mobo kept shutting the system down before I figured out what was happening. It took more than few bios reboots to figure out it failed. The CPU is fine and has been on a cheap fan cooler for over a year.
qubex 7y ago
That just means you have to be careful with where you route your pipes.
philjohn 7y ago
Or do - because water cooling can be a fun hobby. I've got a custom loop with my Ryzen system (420 + 280 rads, mostly EK kit including a D5 Glass XRes) and it's been enjoyable putting it together, and if you're not totally incompetent easy enough to make leak-free with the latest generation of fittings. As for a pump failing, as others have said the CPU will thermally throttle before damage is done, but for added peace of mind I'm running my setup with an Aquaero which will shut the computer down if the coolant temp breaches a set threshold, or it senses the pump has failed. The biggest thing for me is that my computer is EERILY quiet unless I'm pegging all 8 cores, and the GPU, at 100% ... which makes for a nice peaceful environment.
yellowapple 7y ago
Seconding this recommendation, though for slightly different reasons. When I first built my current home workstation (with a Threadripper 1950X) I built it with one of those Enermax liquid coolers, which worked great for a few months until it stopped actually wicking away heat. Turns out there's some sort of corrosion that totally kills the insides of the cooler, and it was a common problem for that particular cooler. Bought the thiccest Noctua I could find on Amazon and haven't looked back.

by dTal 7y ago

deadbunny 7y ago

If the pump fails the CPU will thermal shutdown and be fine once you've replace the cooler/pump. Also not sure if you're counting AIO coolers in with water cooling but they are very reliable.

simias 7y ago
I agree with you that a properly designed CPU shouldn't instantly fry for lack of cooling but is water cooling really worth it? As far as I can tell outside of very esoteric special-purpose equipment it seem very uncommon in the professional world and seems mostly popular with g4m3rs looking to impress their peers with their $10k gaming PC builds. In my experience air cooling with a sufficiently large heatsink is simple and very reliable. Water cooling is more expensive, trickier and can fail catastrophically.
- deadbunny 7y ago
  I use the AIO water cooler on my home system because I can get the system essentially silent (0.5m from my ears) at reasonable temps. They are also a lot less fiddily to deal with (install, ram access, etc...) compared to the huge air cooler you would need for comparable performance IMO.
  - idsout 7y ago
    All in One (AIO) also known as a closed loop cooler for the uninitiated. They're water coolers that come in a single pre-built piece that you just attach like any fan. Source: Been rocking Corsair AIO coolers for around a decade now. I did have have the pump fail in one of them after around seven years of use.
- jorvi 7y ago
  Is not about cooling performance but noise reduction. You need fewer fans and can use bigger ones (= less RPM) giving you a double whammy of noise reduction.
dTal 7y ago
In theory. I've heard many unscientific anecdotes of CPUs being killed this way. My understanding is that in a liquid cooling system without flow, or with no cooling system attached at all, delta-temp over delta-t is so high that the thermal cutoff circuits might not react fast enough before other parts of the chip have been damaged - especially if the chip is under load at the moment of failure. On the other hand, a heatsink provides a decent amount of passive cooling all by itself, so when the fan fails there's a buffer that slows the rate of heating to a safe margin.
- leeter 7y ago
  That is incorrect, the thermal protection circuits operate well in advance of the actual junction death temperature. Usually 20C or so minimum on mobile and more on Desktop. The CPU will throttle like mad first to save itself and then just reset the computer assuming the BIOS doesn't block the boot in the first place.
- mint2 7y ago
  My be quiet heat sink is giant and came with two fans. And I have the ability to add a third. If one of the two fans fail i’d guess temps may raise a few degrees and that’s it. I could even manually test it with one fan and light loads to check one fan performance.
- BubRoss 7y ago
  Modern CPUs adjust to their level of cooling. They don't 'burn up' even if there is no heat sink at all. What you are saying sounds like it is either fear based hyperbole, rumors from over 20 years ago, or both.
- bitL 7y ago
  My TR4 II 360 OC AIO's pump failed recently; it took about 1 hour of intense Deep Learning training to reach 100 degrees at which point the motherboard shut down. I was dumbfounded about what was happening, then after ruling out Titan RTX, power supply etc. problems I noticed a slow climb of CPU temperature. AIO manufacturer didn't even ask for anything and sent a replacement right away and computer is happily number crunching again.

short_sells_poo 7y ago

This is completely anecdotal of course but for the 8 years I've been running watercooled PCs (admittedly professionally built), I never had a leak. Or a pump fail for that matter, but even if one did fail, the CPU will shut off. Furthermore, you are supposed to use distilled water or non-water based coolants with high electric resistance.

leonroy 7y ago
Shameless plug but I’ve built a bunch of water cooled computers and even the more reliable ones like the Swiftech build below with John Guest push fits (rated for 25 years use) do eventually leak. https://www.leonroy.com/oldsite/img/IMG_1802%20(Large).JPG https://www.leonroy.com/oldsite/img/IMG_1802%20(Large).JPG Regarding distilled water, it is indeed not very conductive at all but it is also quite reactive and if it touches electrical traces and PCBs starts to leach ions from the surrounding until it starts to conduct at which point the machine will short circuit (speaking from first hand experience alas).
- kinleyd 7y ago
  OK then, big assed Noctua fans it shall be for me.
  - kjax 7y ago
    I did this for my 3950x, and it works well. The temps on the CPU still spike up quickly and generate a bit of fan noise under brief loads, but apparently that's quite standard for this platform.
    - wil421 7y ago
      Are you happy with the 3950x? I’m looking at the 3950x and 3900x. I’m not sure if the extra $250 is worth it. It’s replacing a i7-7700k so either one will be a nice upgrade.
      - 7y ago

Zardoz84 7y ago

> and if the pump fails your CPU instantly fries. Perhaps if you don't forget to activate the BIOS CPU warning at high temp, you shouldn't worry about this . I recently fixed a PC where the pump died without anyone noticed, and the only evidence, was that the BIOS was powering off the computer when the CPU gets too hot.

Sammi 7y ago

I have been using these big honking Noctua coolers for my last two build. They are truly completely silent when idle. You have to put your head directly next to the case to hear them at all when you're just browsing or doing light tasks. And they only give a reasonable amount of clean fan noise when running max. No squeaking or annoying peaking frequencies. Coupled with high quality power supplies that are also virtually silent, this makes for dream PCs.

72deluxe 7y ago

What about the sealed liquid coolers, eg. Antec? I have one on top of an 8086K I won (thanks Intel). Do I need to panic?

lnsru 7y ago

Thank you for this advice! I’ll have build with 3950X in close future and was keen on installing liquid cooling solution. But now I’ll end with classic fan+heatsink for longevity. Current system is an old FX-8350.

jankotek 7y ago

I have 2600k under water cooling for 8 years, uptime is probably 25%.

BubRoss 7y ago

People run water cooling loops for years and years. It's just plumbing, there is no reason it has to leak. Also modern CPUs have internal temperature sensors of course and don't 'burn up'. This sounds like someone who is afraid of water cooling, not someone familiar with it.

yellowapple 7y ago
> It's just plumbing, there is no reason it has to leak. The first rule of plumbing is that it's guaranteed to eventually leak. (I don't know if this is actually a rule of plumbing, let alone the first one, but it sounds like it should be)
- BubRoss 7y ago
  None of what you just said has any basis in reality

ajross 7y ago

CPUs are supposed to throttle before thermal damage. I don't think I've ever seen a report of an actual CPU failures due to cooling failure. Also, FWIW: integrated liquid cooling solutions are if anything simpler and more reliable devices than fans: smaller motors running at lower RPM last longer.

wil421 7y ago

My current system was water cooled and the pump failed. My mobo kept shutting the system down before I figured out what was happening. It took more than few bios reboots to figure out it failed. The CPU is fine and has been on a cheap fan cooler for over a year.

qubex 7y ago

That just means you have to be careful with where you route your pipes.

philjohn 7y ago

Or do - because water cooling can be a fun hobby. I've got a custom loop with my Ryzen system (420 + 280 rads, mostly EK kit including a D5 Glass XRes) and it's been enjoyable putting it together, and if you're not totally incompetent easy enough to make leak-free with the latest generation of fittings. As for a pump failing, as others have said the CPU will thermally throttle before damage is done, but for added peace of mind I'm running my setup with an Aquaero which will shut the computer down if the coolant temp breaches a set threshold, or it senses the pump has failed. The biggest thing for me is that my computer is EERILY quiet unless I'm pegging all 8 cores, and the GPU, at 100% ... which makes for a nice peaceful environment.

yellowapple 7y ago

Seconding this recommendation, though for slightly different reasons. When I first built my current home workstation (with a Threadripper 1950X) I built it with one of those Enermax liquid coolers, which worked great for a few months until it stopped actually wicking away heat. Turns out there's some sort of corrosion that totally kills the insides of the cooler, and it was a common problem for that particular cooler. Bought the thiccest Noctua I could find on Amazon and haven't looked back.