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Is this uncooled AMD vs Intel comparison still relevant? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDLjVwxH-Fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDLjVwxH-Fk

by 0xWTF 7y ago

oliwarner 7y ago
The 20 years since this video is a long time... But I still remember my P2s and P3s that melted themselves. In the case of the slot-mount P2, it literally melted. So relevant? Probably just as important now as then, but a few P3 designs not melting two decades ago shouldn't give you confidence to do this with a 9900KS.
- rasz 7y ago
  >P3 designs not melting two decades ago P3s melted, Throttling was a brand new P4 feature, probably a must considering how hot they ran
  - oliwarner 7y ago
    Yeah, I had one fail from cooler malfunction, but the video shows one managing to undervolt its way to safety under load. I suspect some were better than others. That's what I meant by "a few P3 designs"; some, not all of them.
    - rasz 7y ago
      P4. You, like most people at the time (until AMD response and subsequent article), missed a trick Toms Hardware employed :(. Undoubtedly following Intel "suggestions" send together with P4 sample press kit, Toms Hardware used specific P3 motherboard with external thermal protection. P3 CPU neither throttled nor shut down on its own, and we dont even see in the video if it survived either. External thermal protection circuit on the motherboard detected high temperature and cut out CPU supply voltage, exactly as described in "Pentium III Processor Active Thermal Management Techniques" http://notes-application.abcelectronique.com/027/27-46150.pdf http://notes-application.abcelectronique.com/027/27-46150.pd... AMD had analogous app note. Motherboard used in Toms Hardware video, Siemens one, was supposedly equipped with very same circuit, it failed. AMD was blamed instead of Siemens. This was at the height of Intel meddling. They directly bribed vendors, ugh Im sorry, I meant offered rebates under MCP (Meet Comp Program) in exchange for strict no AMD commitments. DELL, HP all took Intel $, $6 billion in kick-backs. Another Intel tactic was manufacturing facts and positive press stories, something we now call fake news. Ubisoft loves money, so it will come as no surprise to learn they took a brib^^ promotional marketing funds to plaster huge "Designed for Intel MMX" on game BOX https://www.mobygames.com/images/covers/l/51358-pod-windows-front-cover.jpg https://www.mobygames.com/images/covers/l/51358-pod-windows-... Hint: MMX is Integer math only, unsuitable for accelerating 3D games. Whats worse MMX has no dedicated registers, and instead reuses/shares FPU ones, this means you cant use MMX and FPU (all 3D code pre Direct3D 7 Hardware T&L) at the same time. In POD its used for one specific sound effect (audio filter) and has zero influence on game speed. BTW this wouldnt be the 1st time Ubisoft sold its clients to a highest bidder. Nvidia copied this technique with "the way its meant to be played" campaign https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22090413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22090413. Intel SSE also got a big push with fake 3D acceleration claims https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=65247&start=20#p734738 https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=65247&start=20#p... Intel version: "At the time, I was working for Intel and was involved in the launch of the Pentium 3, aka Katmai. We _engaged_ a number of games manufacturers to provide demos showcasing not only Screaming Sindy's Extensions, but the arcane and mysterious Katmai New Instructions. One such outfit was Rage Software, now sadly deceased. Rage provided demos of Incoming and an early prototype of a game called Dispatched, which as far as I know never actually saw the light of day. Dispatched featured a strangely-arousing cat riding a jet powered motorcycle. The first version I saw was running on a 400MHz Katmai and was still in wireframe. It was bloody impressive." Reality, according to hardware.fr: "Let's start with Dispatched first. This is actually a Rage Software game that should come out late 99, which Intel showed the demo at Comdex Fall to highlight the benefits of the SSE. Big interest, it is possible to enable or disable the use of SSE instructions at any time. Nothing to say in terms of speed, it goes squarely faster once the SSE activated, + 50% to + 100% depending on the scenes! But looking closely at the demo, we notice - as you can see on the screenshots - that the _SSE version is less detailed_ than the non-SSE version (see the ground). Intel would you try to roll the journalists in the flour?" SSE version is less detailed? How convenient! Rage Software Dispatched never came out. The only outfit, other than Intel, in possession of this software was Anandtech. They used this exclusive press access to pimp out Pentium 3 benchmarks manufacturing fiction like this https://images.anandtech.com/old/cpu/intel-pentium3/Image94.gif https://images.anandtech.com/old/cpu/intel-pentium3/Image94....
davidcme 7y ago
no - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU9yjwMlbRI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU9yjwMlbRI

Is this uncooled AMD vs Intel comparison still relevant? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDLjVwxH-Fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDLjVwxH-Fk

by 0xWTF 7y ago

Is this uncooled AMD vs Intel comparison still relevant? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDLjVwxH-Fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDLjVwxH-Fk

oliwarner 7y ago

The 20 years since this video is a long time... But I still remember my P2s and P3s that melted themselves. In the case of the slot-mount P2, it literally melted. So relevant? Probably just as important now as then, but a few P3 designs not melting two decades ago shouldn't give you confidence to do this with a 9900KS.

rasz 7y ago
>P3 designs not melting two decades ago P3s melted, Throttling was a brand new P4 feature, probably a must considering how hot they ran
- oliwarner 7y ago
  Yeah, I had one fail from cooler malfunction, but the video shows one managing to undervolt its way to safety under load. I suspect some were better than others. That's what I meant by "a few P3 designs"; some, not all of them.
  - rasz 7y ago
    P4. You, like most people at the time (until AMD response and subsequent article), missed a trick Toms Hardware employed :(. Undoubtedly following Intel "suggestions" send together with P4 sample press kit, Toms Hardware used specific P3 motherboard with external thermal protection. P3 CPU neither throttled nor shut down on its own, and we dont even see in the video if it survived either. External thermal protection circuit on the motherboard detected high temperature and cut out CPU supply voltage, exactly as described in "Pentium III Processor Active Thermal Management Techniques" http://notes-application.abcelectronique.com/027/27-46150.pdf http://notes-application.abcelectronique.com/027/27-46150.pd... AMD had analogous app note. Motherboard used in Toms Hardware video, Siemens one, was supposedly equipped with very same circuit, it failed. AMD was blamed instead of Siemens. This was at the height of Intel meddling. They directly bribed vendors, ugh Im sorry, I meant offered rebates under MCP (Meet Comp Program) in exchange for strict no AMD commitments. DELL, HP all took Intel $, $6 billion in kick-backs. Another Intel tactic was manufacturing facts and positive press stories, something we now call fake news. Ubisoft loves money, so it will come as no surprise to learn they took a brib^^ promotional marketing funds to plaster huge "Designed for Intel MMX" on game BOX https://www.mobygames.com/images/covers/l/51358-pod-windows-front-cover.jpg https://www.mobygames.com/images/covers/l/51358-pod-windows-... Hint: MMX is Integer math only, unsuitable for accelerating 3D games. Whats worse MMX has no dedicated registers, and instead reuses/shares FPU ones, this means you cant use MMX and FPU (all 3D code pre Direct3D 7 Hardware T&L) at the same time. In POD its used for one specific sound effect (audio filter) and has zero influence on game speed. BTW this wouldnt be the 1st time Ubisoft sold its clients to a highest bidder. Nvidia copied this technique with "the way its meant to be played" campaign https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22090413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22090413. Intel SSE also got a big push with fake 3D acceleration claims https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=65247&start=20#p734738 https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=65247&start=20#p... Intel version: "At the time, I was working for Intel and was involved in the launch of the Pentium 3, aka Katmai. We _engaged_ a number of games manufacturers to provide demos showcasing not only Screaming Sindy's Extensions, but the arcane and mysterious Katmai New Instructions. One such outfit was Rage Software, now sadly deceased. Rage provided demos of Incoming and an early prototype of a game called Dispatched, which as far as I know never actually saw the light of day. Dispatched featured a strangely-arousing cat riding a jet powered motorcycle. The first version I saw was running on a 400MHz Katmai and was still in wireframe. It was bloody impressive." Reality, according to hardware.fr: "Let's start with Dispatched first. This is actually a Rage Software game that should come out late 99, which Intel showed the demo at Comdex Fall to highlight the benefits of the SSE. Big interest, it is possible to enable or disable the use of SSE instructions at any time. Nothing to say in terms of speed, it goes squarely faster once the SSE activated, + 50% to + 100% depending on the scenes! But looking closely at the demo, we notice - as you can see on the screenshots - that the _SSE version is less detailed_ than the non-SSE version (see the ground). Intel would you try to roll the journalists in the flour?" SSE version is less detailed? How convenient! Rage Software Dispatched never came out. The only outfit, other than Intel, in possession of this software was Anandtech. They used this exclusive press access to pimp out Pentium 3 benchmarks manufacturing fiction like this https://images.anandtech.com/old/cpu/intel-pentium3/Image94.gif https://images.anandtech.com/old/cpu/intel-pentium3/Image94....

davidcme 7y ago

no - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU9yjwMlbRI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU9yjwMlbRI