5 ms·

How easy is it to immigrate to Finland and enjoy these advantages of Finnish society? If it’s easy, then I wonder why more people don’t do it. If it’s difficult

by baddox 7y ago

How easy is it to immigrate to Finland and enjoy these advantages of Finnish society? If it’s easy, then I wonder why more people don’t do it. If it’s difficult, then it feels a little disingenuous to praise a society for privileging the people who just so happen to be born there. Obviously I’m not discounting the notion than certain societies can treat people better than other societies. I’m only trying to point out that given good treatment to members of a society is a pretty useless measure to judge a society unless you also analyze how people an become members of that society.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
socialdemocrat 7y ago
Not sure about Finland but my native Norway pops up in these kinds of discussions frequently as well. Moving to Norway is in fact relatively easy as long as you get a job which requires some kind of higher education or special skill. You cannot move to Norway just to flip burgers. But you can move to Norway as say a sushi chef or geologist. I would expect Finland as a fellow Nordic country to be similar. The reason we are not overrun with people moving to Norway is simply that people don't actually know Norway is fairly easy to move to. I have spoken to many foreign professionals here and while most of them originally had positive attitudes to Norway, pretty much none of them had believed moving to Norway was even an option. It was often entirely random reasons why they ended up in Norway, such as getting hired by a Norwegian company at a foreign branch. To most people contemplating emigrating the only countries that exist in their heads are the US, Canada and Australia. Also especially people from poorer countries who decide to emigrate are extremely ambitious. They want to make a lot of money and shoot for the stars. Nordic countries are not really a place for such people. Ambition and making lots of money is not central value in Nordic societies. Nordics is all about work-life balance, moderation etc. While Norway e.g. is one of the worlds richest countries you will not find any Rolls Royce, Bentley's or 200m tall luxury hotels. The wealth is sort of hidden in child-care facilities, humane prisons and stuff that isn't very glitzy. If you want to show off that you made it, then you are in the wrong place if you aim for the Nordics ;-)
- tallanvor 7y ago
  Norwegians pretend they don't care about a status symbols, but the reality is very different. You'll see many high-end cars and people walking around with designer bags and clothes, even teenagers. For a month prior to the 17th of May you'll also see teenagers spend obscene amounts of money fitting out a bus to drive around the city drinking and annoying everyone with horrible music. --It may seem normal to you, but it really is a rather ostentatious display of wealth.
  - socialdemocrat 7y ago
    Of course, people care about status all over the world. We are not an entirely different species. It is a question of relative difference. Compared to how wealthy Norway actually is, there is relatively little display of wealth. Compare to something like Hong Kong, Moscow or the Gulf States.
- oblio 7y ago
  You're forgetting English. Learning a foreign language is really hard and many people learn English as school/by listening to music/by watching movies/TV series/etc. Few people want to go through the hassle of learning another foreign language.
  - socialdemocrat 7y ago
    Yes that is a key issue, but most people don't even get to the point of investigating the language situation. You don't have to learn Norwegian to live and work in Norway. I have friends who have lived here for over 10 years who can barely say a word of Norwegian.
leke 7y ago
I believe it's no more difficult then any other EU country. I was engaged to a Finn and I was accepted on those grounds, even though I didn't have work. When I got married, I could attend the immigrant integration course (maahanmuuttajakoulutus), which included an intensive language learning program. I'm an EU citizen, and I believe EU citizens can live in Finland if they have employment.
- yonder 7y ago
  You don't have to have employment, but must have some other means for supporting yourself besides social benefits. It's ok to collect them between jobs for a while, though.
maeln 7y ago
Finland is part of the EU, so it is very easy to immigrate there if you are from one of the member country. If you are not, it is still not that hard (comparing to some other EU country). I actually had some member of my step family immigrating to Finland, and ultimately getting the citizenship. The administration is very helpful and provide a lot of help for people who immigrating to Finland (like full time language classes, which a lot of country don't do). Finland is a small country, so they are usually very open to qualified immigration because they usually have more position than what they can provide nationwide. Having company where the official work language is English says a lot about that. > If it’s easy, then I wonder why more people don’t do it. Why everybody is not moving to Finland is usually the weather and the language which is considered difficult (but very interesting) for people who don't know a ural/altaic language. Also, not everybody want to move out of their country and leave their friends and familly. > If it’s difficult, then it feels a little disingenuous to praise a society for privileging the people who just so happen to be born there. Well, this is a concept of nation. I would like to live in a world without border but this is not reality. You cannot criticize a country for treating their citizen good.
xornox 7y ago
Language is one of the main reasons for low immigration. Local employers expect very often Finnish speaking skills. Even highly educated foreigners may have difficulties to find a job because of this, often ridiculous and unnecessary requirement.
- Johjd 7y ago
  It is not a rediculous requirement when you go to someone's country. Noone called you to go there and you have the nerve to impose your will? The best thing you would have to do is to respect that country and learn their language and customs.
  - xornox 7y ago
    Yes that is true, but Finnish people speak quite good English and many job positions does not really require perfect Finnish skills.

by baddox 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

socialdemocrat 7y ago

Not sure about Finland but my native Norway pops up in these kinds of discussions frequently as well. Moving to Norway is in fact relatively easy as long as you get a job which requires some kind of higher education or special skill. You cannot move to Norway just to flip burgers. But you can move to Norway as say a sushi chef or geologist. I would expect Finland as a fellow Nordic country to be similar. The reason we are not overrun with people moving to Norway is simply that people don't actually know Norway is fairly easy to move to. I have spoken to many foreign professionals here and while most of them originally had positive attitudes to Norway, pretty much none of them had believed moving to Norway was even an option. It was often entirely random reasons why they ended up in Norway, such as getting hired by a Norwegian company at a foreign branch. To most people contemplating emigrating the only countries that exist in their heads are the US, Canada and Australia. Also especially people from poorer countries who decide to emigrate are extremely ambitious. They want to make a lot of money and shoot for the stars. Nordic countries are not really a place for such people. Ambition and making lots of money is not central value in Nordic societies. Nordics is all about work-life balance, moderation etc. While Norway e.g. is one of the worlds richest countries you will not find any Rolls Royce, Bentley's or 200m tall luxury hotels. The wealth is sort of hidden in child-care facilities, humane prisons and stuff that isn't very glitzy. If you want to show off that you made it, then you are in the wrong place if you aim for the Nordics ;-)

tallanvor 7y ago
Norwegians pretend they don't care about a status symbols, but the reality is very different. You'll see many high-end cars and people walking around with designer bags and clothes, even teenagers. For a month prior to the 17th of May you'll also see teenagers spend obscene amounts of money fitting out a bus to drive around the city drinking and annoying everyone with horrible music. --It may seem normal to you, but it really is a rather ostentatious display of wealth.
- socialdemocrat 7y ago
  Of course, people care about status all over the world. We are not an entirely different species. It is a question of relative difference. Compared to how wealthy Norway actually is, there is relatively little display of wealth. Compare to something like Hong Kong, Moscow or the Gulf States.
oblio 7y ago
You're forgetting English. Learning a foreign language is really hard and many people learn English as school/by listening to music/by watching movies/TV series/etc. Few people want to go through the hassle of learning another foreign language.
- socialdemocrat 7y ago
  Yes that is a key issue, but most people don't even get to the point of investigating the language situation. You don't have to learn Norwegian to live and work in Norway. I have friends who have lived here for over 10 years who can barely say a word of Norwegian.

leke 7y ago

I believe it's no more difficult then any other EU country. I was engaged to a Finn and I was accepted on those grounds, even though I didn't have work. When I got married, I could attend the immigrant integration course (maahanmuuttajakoulutus), which included an intensive language learning program. I'm an EU citizen, and I believe EU citizens can live in Finland if they have employment.

yonder 7y ago
You don't have to have employment, but must have some other means for supporting yourself besides social benefits. It's ok to collect them between jobs for a while, though.

maeln 7y ago

Finland is part of the EU, so it is very easy to immigrate there if you are from one of the member country. If you are not, it is still not that hard (comparing to some other EU country). I actually had some member of my step family immigrating to Finland, and ultimately getting the citizenship. The administration is very helpful and provide a lot of help for people who immigrating to Finland (like full time language classes, which a lot of country don't do). Finland is a small country, so they are usually very open to qualified immigration because they usually have more position than what they can provide nationwide. Having company where the official work language is English says a lot about that. > If it’s easy, then I wonder why more people don’t do it. Why everybody is not moving to Finland is usually the weather and the language which is considered difficult (but very interesting) for people who don't know a ural/altaic language. Also, not everybody want to move out of their country and leave their friends and familly. > If it’s difficult, then it feels a little disingenuous to praise a society for privileging the people who just so happen to be born there. Well, this is a concept of nation. I would like to live in a world without border but this is not reality. You cannot criticize a country for treating their citizen good.

xornox 7y ago

Language is one of the main reasons for low immigration. Local employers expect very often Finnish speaking skills. Even highly educated foreigners may have difficulties to find a job because of this, often ridiculous and unnecessary requirement.

Johjd 7y ago
It is not a rediculous requirement when you go to someone's country. Noone called you to go there and you have the nerve to impose your will? The best thing you would have to do is to respect that country and learn their language and customs.
- xornox 7y ago
  Yes that is true, but Finnish people speak quite good English and many job positions does not really require perfect Finnish skills.