6 ms·

Kenya is a very undervalued country... Lots of highly educated folks. Too bad poverty and a lack of opportunities causes people to aid in cheating

qwerty456127 7y ago
Why is there poverty and lack of opportunities if there are lots of highly educated folks? I always believed education is the key to prosperity of a nation.
- Double_a_92 7y ago
  Kenya is actually fairly rich and democratic. There is definitely opportinity there. If I had to bet by gut-feel, I'd say prosperity on the African continent will start from there.
  - qwerty456127 7y ago
    There is always a huge and easy-to-implement potential for stagnation and regular regressions, let alone for hard and long work before actual progress happens. Look at Russia - it also is fairly rich and democratic (as compared many other countries, although hardly an example of democracy in itself) yet you can hardly observe much prosperity (but for a small selection of people) starting there. African prosperity may start in Kenya but this will probably take at least 100 years.
- xupybd 7y ago
  You also need good infrastructure and low corruption. Business fail when corruption is too high
  - socialdemocrat 7y ago
    The nature of corruption probably matters. Corruption is quite high in China e.g. yet it still develops very quickly. Some quite rich countries like Italy are quite corrupt but still kind of manage. I suspect the devil is in the details. Certain forms of corruption is likely more corrosive than others.
    - lenkite 7y ago
      It depends on deliverables and execution. No one truly cares if someone's family took a small cut of the project expenses, if the project was executed and delivered according to spec on time. In China, failing execution would result in head-chopping. Problem in most third-world nations is drinking down all the money and delivering little-to-nothing.
- pjc50 7y ago
  There's poverty because there isn't enough income, and there's lack of opportunity because there isn't enough capital? Education isn't magic and cannot substitute for a lack of money, and it only flourishes in a peaceful society with strong civic institutions. Kenya was hit fairly hard by British colonialism, then (as so often) was a one-party state under a strongman for a long time, and is now dealing with a small Islamist insurgency. It's in the middle rank of African countries; it doesn't have the resource wealth of Nigeria, Angola or South Africa, but it's not a violent basket case like Somalia or Eritrea.
  - qwerty456127 7y ago
    > There's poverty because there isn't enough income, and there's lack of opportunity because there isn't enough capital? Education isn't magic and cannot substitute for a lack of money Why does it even matter where the money is today? Why can't they just provide their services over the Internet to get the money? They are doing this already as this very post suggests and should expand to other fields, less questionable fields in particular. > it doesn't have the resource wealth of Nigeria, Angola or South Africa Doesn't it? I suspect almost every country (in Africa especially) has a wealth of some resource, they just don't know it's there and don't have the technology to mine it. Perhaps the smart educated folks may discover it occasionally.
    - pjc50 7y ago
      It looks like mining was indeed under-exploited until recently, due to lack of surveys: https://www.mining-technology.com/features/featurekenyas-mining-industry-set-for-a-boom-4958923/ https://www.mining-technology.com/features/featurekenyas-min... I suppose the challenge there is keeping and distributing enough of the wealth without most of it going to corruption and foreign partners like RTZ.
    - socialdemocrat 7y ago
      > Doesn't it? I suspect almost every country (in Africa especially) has a wealth of some resource, they just don't know it's there and don't have the technology to mine it. Perhaps the smart educated folks may discover it occasionally. The problem is quality government. I live in Norway which is big on resources too and work with people who are geologists and do surveying. Norway is insanely expensive to do mining compared to Africa in terms of labor costs, environmental protection laws etc. However many mining companies would still pick Norway over Africa. Why? Very stable high quality government. Mining requires large investments for years. You don't want to lose those investments because of civil war, or some dictator takes power, or a populists nationalize mine without compensation. And even if an African country gets a mine, they run the risk of it not helping the country develop much. Because: 1) A western company may extract most of the wealth. In principle that could happen in Norway too, but Norwegian government will tax these companies far more. A western company can often squeeze poor African governments to get very low tax deals. Or they simply bribe officials. 2) Government corruption. There may be a lot of wealth, but it may end up in the pockets of corrupt officials who use it to buy foreign luxury products hence it benefits the local economy very little. My point is that developing a country is a very complex task, because they tend to have a whole cocktail of problems that reinforce each other. Often many approaches to solving these problems make matters worse. Zero tolerance towards corruption e.g. tends to make things worse. That allows corruption charges to be used selectively to imprison political opponents.
- brazzy 7y ago
  Education helps little if you don't have a stable political, judical and economical system. Kenya, like nearly all countries in Africa, is plagued by corruption, political unrest and ethnical conflicts.
  - xallace 7y ago
    if you don't have a stable political, judical and economical system how can you have a highly educated population?
    - fit2rule 7y ago
      You do the rich-kids homework, duh.
    - C14L 7y ago
      They don't. That's just one of the things Westerners like to say about poor countries.
    - lenkite 7y ago
      A lot of folks in third world nations focus on academics to escape corrupt and dysfunctional governments. Also working hard at academics ensures you have a better chance of getting a job and providing for yourself somehow. There is no social support as a safety line. The first time I heard about a concept called "unemployment insurance", I was utterly flabbergasted! I thought it was a joke!
- socialdemocrat 7y ago
  Unfortunately that is one of big myths that has kept a lot of Africa from developing. Western nations have focused too much on education. But what you end up with are highly educated people who simply move out of the country at first opportunity. Capital and quality government is the key to development. Things like registering a business, getting permits e.g. cannot be too difficult. Rich countries tend to be rich in large part due to capital. Capital existing in the form of extensive road and rail road networks. Quality harbors for ships. Power stations and power grids. All these things are very capital intensive and poor countries tend to have big problems with this. Hard to run a business efficiently when you get power only parts of the day if at all, and there are no road connecting you to customers or markets. The west has focused on improving education and health care and so that has perhaps been quite ahead of the standard of the infrastructure.
- C14L 7y ago
  That's just one of the tales of the "aid" industry. Turns out, the real key is jobs. But try investing there, and the "aid" people will call you a neo-colonialist.
- dielll 7y ago
  With poor governance, there can only be opportunities for corruption and theft of government resources and not for improving the lives of citizens. In Kenya, those in government steal and invest that money in real estate, building malls and posh estates that don't help the normal citizens in any way. If those were invested in startups then the story would be different
xupybd 7y ago
There must be an opportunity to start outsourcing more legitimate work there.
- tr33house 7y ago
  I believe this too. Highly untapped potential

qwerty456127 7y ago

Why is there poverty and lack of opportunities if there are lots of highly educated folks? I always believed education is the key to prosperity of a nation.

Double_a_92 7y ago
Kenya is actually fairly rich and democratic. There is definitely opportinity there. If I had to bet by gut-feel, I'd say prosperity on the African continent will start from there.
- qwerty456127 7y ago
  There is always a huge and easy-to-implement potential for stagnation and regular regressions, let alone for hard and long work before actual progress happens. Look at Russia - it also is fairly rich and democratic (as compared many other countries, although hardly an example of democracy in itself) yet you can hardly observe much prosperity (but for a small selection of people) starting there. African prosperity may start in Kenya but this will probably take at least 100 years.
xupybd 7y ago
You also need good infrastructure and low corruption. Business fail when corruption is too high
- socialdemocrat 7y ago
  The nature of corruption probably matters. Corruption is quite high in China e.g. yet it still develops very quickly. Some quite rich countries like Italy are quite corrupt but still kind of manage. I suspect the devil is in the details. Certain forms of corruption is likely more corrosive than others.
  - lenkite 7y ago
    It depends on deliverables and execution. No one truly cares if someone's family took a small cut of the project expenses, if the project was executed and delivered according to spec on time. In China, failing execution would result in head-chopping. Problem in most third-world nations is drinking down all the money and delivering little-to-nothing.
pjc50 7y ago
There's poverty because there isn't enough income, and there's lack of opportunity because there isn't enough capital? Education isn't magic and cannot substitute for a lack of money, and it only flourishes in a peaceful society with strong civic institutions. Kenya was hit fairly hard by British colonialism, then (as so often) was a one-party state under a strongman for a long time, and is now dealing with a small Islamist insurgency. It's in the middle rank of African countries; it doesn't have the resource wealth of Nigeria, Angola or South Africa, but it's not a violent basket case like Somalia or Eritrea.
- qwerty456127 7y ago
  > There's poverty because there isn't enough income, and there's lack of opportunity because there isn't enough capital? Education isn't magic and cannot substitute for a lack of money Why does it even matter where the money is today? Why can't they just provide their services over the Internet to get the money? They are doing this already as this very post suggests and should expand to other fields, less questionable fields in particular. > it doesn't have the resource wealth of Nigeria, Angola or South Africa Doesn't it? I suspect almost every country (in Africa especially) has a wealth of some resource, they just don't know it's there and don't have the technology to mine it. Perhaps the smart educated folks may discover it occasionally.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    It looks like mining was indeed under-exploited until recently, due to lack of surveys: https://www.mining-technology.com/features/featurekenyas-mining-industry-set-for-a-boom-4958923/ https://www.mining-technology.com/features/featurekenyas-min... I suppose the challenge there is keeping and distributing enough of the wealth without most of it going to corruption and foreign partners like RTZ.
  - socialdemocrat 7y ago
    > Doesn't it? I suspect almost every country (in Africa especially) has a wealth of some resource, they just don't know it's there and don't have the technology to mine it. Perhaps the smart educated folks may discover it occasionally. The problem is quality government. I live in Norway which is big on resources too and work with people who are geologists and do surveying. Norway is insanely expensive to do mining compared to Africa in terms of labor costs, environmental protection laws etc. However many mining companies would still pick Norway over Africa. Why? Very stable high quality government. Mining requires large investments for years. You don't want to lose those investments because of civil war, or some dictator takes power, or a populists nationalize mine without compensation. And even if an African country gets a mine, they run the risk of it not helping the country develop much. Because: 1) A western company may extract most of the wealth. In principle that could happen in Norway too, but Norwegian government will tax these companies far more. A western company can often squeeze poor African governments to get very low tax deals. Or they simply bribe officials. 2) Government corruption. There may be a lot of wealth, but it may end up in the pockets of corrupt officials who use it to buy foreign luxury products hence it benefits the local economy very little. My point is that developing a country is a very complex task, because they tend to have a whole cocktail of problems that reinforce each other. Often many approaches to solving these problems make matters worse. Zero tolerance towards corruption e.g. tends to make things worse. That allows corruption charges to be used selectively to imprison political opponents.
brazzy 7y ago
Education helps little if you don't have a stable political, judical and economical system. Kenya, like nearly all countries in Africa, is plagued by corruption, political unrest and ethnical conflicts.
- xallace 7y ago
  if you don't have a stable political, judical and economical system how can you have a highly educated population?
  - fit2rule 7y ago
    You do the rich-kids homework, duh.
  - C14L 7y ago
    They don't. That's just one of the things Westerners like to say about poor countries.
  - lenkite 7y ago
    A lot of folks in third world nations focus on academics to escape corrupt and dysfunctional governments. Also working hard at academics ensures you have a better chance of getting a job and providing for yourself somehow. There is no social support as a safety line. The first time I heard about a concept called "unemployment insurance", I was utterly flabbergasted! I thought it was a joke!
socialdemocrat 7y ago
Unfortunately that is one of big myths that has kept a lot of Africa from developing. Western nations have focused too much on education. But what you end up with are highly educated people who simply move out of the country at first opportunity. Capital and quality government is the key to development. Things like registering a business, getting permits e.g. cannot be too difficult. Rich countries tend to be rich in large part due to capital. Capital existing in the form of extensive road and rail road networks. Quality harbors for ships. Power stations and power grids. All these things are very capital intensive and poor countries tend to have big problems with this. Hard to run a business efficiently when you get power only parts of the day if at all, and there are no road connecting you to customers or markets. The west has focused on improving education and health care and so that has perhaps been quite ahead of the standard of the infrastructure.
C14L 7y ago
That's just one of the tales of the "aid" industry. Turns out, the real key is jobs. But try investing there, and the "aid" people will call you a neo-colonialist.
dielll 7y ago
With poor governance, there can only be opportunities for corruption and theft of government resources and not for improving the lives of citizens. In Kenya, those in government steal and invest that money in real estate, building malls and posh estates that don't help the normal citizens in any way. If those were invested in startups then the story would be different

xupybd 7y ago

There must be an opportunity to start outsourcing more legitimate work there.

tr33house 7y ago
I believe this too. Highly untapped potential