4 ms·

I'm surprised the article didn't even mention this. Zero hour contracts, huge spike in low wage positions, not to mention apprenticeships (low paid) and other D

I'm surprised the article didn't even mention this. Zero hour contracts, huge spike in low wage positions, not to mention apprenticeships (low paid) and other DWP work schemes that are considered to some as slave labour. Our government over the last 10 years has been racing to the bottom, and now we're leaving the EU, I'd love to see some of the Tories dreams of poorer employment rights come true. Some of which are horrifying, JRM to name one.

lazyjones 7y ago
It's the secret of Germany's successful run before the recent slump and possibly the only way to deal with the increased immigration of unqualified people.
- bilekas 7y ago
  > increased immigration of unqualified people What ? Can you share the research supporting that ? Also I can't wait to see the Pro-Brexit teams out picking fruits and washing toilets & floors.
  - coolplants 7y ago
    Why can’t you wait to see pro-brexit teams picking fruit, etc.? Are you implying that low-skill jobs are degrading/undignified?
    - grabeh 7y ago
      No, they're implying that there's been a failure by pro-leavers to acknowledge that many of these roles have been in the recent past been performed by immigrants from Europe. Now with the UK's departure, employers may struggle to fill vacancies (and indeed it appears they have been - see link below), so the poster was sarcastically suggesting that they can't wait to see pro-leavers performing these tasks because it seems like in many cases UK nationals aren't willing to perform these types of roles. The nature of the role is irrelevant and the poster wasn't suggesting that pro-leavers should be subject to degradation! https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/11/tonnes-of-crops-left-to-rot-as-farms-struggle-to-recruit-eu-workers https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/11/tonnes-of-c...
      - coolplants 7y ago
        All we know is that UK nationals aren’t willing to do those jobs at the wages being offered. If employers raise wages to something liveable and decent then it’s reasonable to assume employment in those areas will increase.
        grabeh 7y ago
        Yes, of course. I was just explaining why I thought you'd misinterpreted the original poster's comment.
        coolplants 7y ago
        Well I think he was hostile and resentful and that’s not cool. I also sincerely and in good faith can’t wait to see less people exploited for cheap labor and more of my fellow Britons employed with a decent wage for once.
        bilekas 7y ago
        Hostile no, but I can see the market still needing unskilled labour of course, and I genuinely hope for your sake that it doesnt just cause the prices to increase dramatically. I'm not from nor living in the UK but I sure hope things work out. My post was a dig at the idea that all the UK needs to allow into the country is highly skilled people. I don't buy that argument.. But lets see.
        coolplants 7y ago
        You’re right, a relatively large influx of foreign workers of any skill level is harmful to all people, but especially the local people if it causes a reduction in wages. If the cost of goods increases, it won’t likely be severe since it serves the entire population while only a small percentage of the population produce the goods. Also changing prices affects demand independently from cost of production.
        lazyjones 7y ago
  - rjldev 7y ago
    They will if the wages for these jobs increase due to decreased labour competition. That or there's more starter jobs for teenagers
- bildung 7y ago
  Sadly there was no successful run. While this made unemployment rates look better, it has been shown that the absolute amount of hours worked hasn't increased in that period. In other words: 1 good job became 2 bad jobs, which meant less contributions into welfare and pension funds (both of which are essentially federal, not company based in Germany). It also lowered aggregate demand, and this lack of domestic demand partly explains why Germany has so many problems recovering from the crisis.
  - lazyjones 7y ago
    > Sadly there was no successful run. Depends how you look at it - they certainly had an impressive account surplus, for 4 consecutive years (currently world leading $293b). > 1 good job became 2 bad jobs, which meant less contributions into welfare and pension funds This means lower contributions but also much lower payout for welfare. > this lack of domestic demand partly explains why Germany has so many problems recovering from the crisis. AFAICT domestic demand in Germany is still strong, but clearly attempting to boost it through welfare proved to be an inferior strategy.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
Underemployment has been falling alongside unemployment, zero hours contracts aren't as big of a problem as they are made out to be.
- bilekas 7y ago
  They are if you're looking for some financial security, even if you're trying to demonstrate stability for loan applications etc. They're essentially the old method of factory workers showing up outside and the manager just picking X number for the day. I would have thought Britain has moved passed that.
- drcongo 7y ago
  Tell that to the people forced to work on zero hours contracts.

lazyjones 7y ago

It's the secret of Germany's successful run before the recent slump and possibly the only way to deal with the increased immigration of unqualified people.

bilekas 7y ago
> increased immigration of unqualified people What ? Can you share the research supporting that ? Also I can't wait to see the Pro-Brexit teams out picking fruits and washing toilets & floors.
- coolplants 7y ago
  Why can’t you wait to see pro-brexit teams picking fruit, etc.? Are you implying that low-skill jobs are degrading/undignified?
  - grabeh 7y ago
    No, they're implying that there's been a failure by pro-leavers to acknowledge that many of these roles have been in the recent past been performed by immigrants from Europe. Now with the UK's departure, employers may struggle to fill vacancies (and indeed it appears they have been - see link below), so the poster was sarcastically suggesting that they can't wait to see pro-leavers performing these tasks because it seems like in many cases UK nationals aren't willing to perform these types of roles. The nature of the role is irrelevant and the poster wasn't suggesting that pro-leavers should be subject to degradation! https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/11/tonnes-of-crops-left-to-rot-as-farms-struggle-to-recruit-eu-workers https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/11/tonnes-of-c...
    - coolplants 7y ago
      All we know is that UK nationals aren’t willing to do those jobs at the wages being offered. If employers raise wages to something liveable and decent then it’s reasonable to assume employment in those areas will increase.
      - grabeh 7y ago
        Yes, of course. I was just explaining why I thought you'd misinterpreted the original poster's comment.
        coolplants 7y ago
        Well I think he was hostile and resentful and that’s not cool. I also sincerely and in good faith can’t wait to see less people exploited for cheap labor and more of my fellow Britons employed with a decent wage for once.
        bilekas 7y ago
        Hostile no, but I can see the market still needing unskilled labour of course, and I genuinely hope for your sake that it doesnt just cause the prices to increase dramatically. I'm not from nor living in the UK but I sure hope things work out. My post was a dig at the idea that all the UK needs to allow into the country is highly skilled people. I don't buy that argument.. But lets see.
        coolplants 7y ago
        You’re right, a relatively large influx of foreign workers of any skill level is harmful to all people, but especially the local people if it causes a reduction in wages. If the cost of goods increases, it won’t likely be severe since it serves the entire population while only a small percentage of the population produce the goods. Also changing prices affects demand independently from cost of production.
      - lazyjones 7y ago
- rjldev 7y ago
  They will if the wages for these jobs increase due to decreased labour competition. That or there's more starter jobs for teenagers
bildung 7y ago
Sadly there was no successful run. While this made unemployment rates look better, it has been shown that the absolute amount of hours worked hasn't increased in that period. In other words: 1 good job became 2 bad jobs, which meant less contributions into welfare and pension funds (both of which are essentially federal, not company based in Germany). It also lowered aggregate demand, and this lack of domestic demand partly explains why Germany has so many problems recovering from the crisis.
- lazyjones 7y ago
  > Sadly there was no successful run. Depends how you look at it - they certainly had an impressive account surplus, for 4 consecutive years (currently world leading $293b). > 1 good job became 2 bad jobs, which meant less contributions into welfare and pension funds This means lower contributions but also much lower payout for welfare. > this lack of domestic demand partly explains why Germany has so many problems recovering from the crisis. AFAICT domestic demand in Germany is still strong, but clearly attempting to boost it through welfare proved to be an inferior strategy.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

Underemployment has been falling alongside unemployment, zero hours contracts aren't as big of a problem as they are made out to be.

bilekas 7y ago
They are if you're looking for some financial security, even if you're trying to demonstrate stability for loan applications etc. They're essentially the old method of factory workers showing up outside and the manager just picking X number for the day. I would have thought Britain has moved passed that.
drcongo 7y ago
Tell that to the people forced to work on zero hours contracts.