4 ms·

I always find it interesting that the people who unabashedly admit they have minimal front-end experience usually have the strongest condemnation of the current

by ng12 7y ago

I always find it interesting that the people who unabashedly admit they have minimal front-end experience usually have the strongest condemnation of the current tools.

csande17 7y ago
It's more understandable if you think about it the other way around: people who don't like the current front-end tools usually try to avoid contact with them. Which these days, mostly means not doing professional front-end development.
mosselman 7y ago
Don’t worry. People with a lot of front-end experience, in this case me, also condemn the current tools.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- oggadog 7y ago
  Can I ask what sort of front-end frameworks/tools you use that you also condemn?
  - austincheney 7y ago
    Most of them are merely abstraction layers for capabilities the browsers already provide. Rarely do they offer anything more. The big selling point is that they help organize the logic in a declarative way or automate a bunch of tiresome tasks that wouldn’t be there in the first place had you not used a mountain of tooling. There are only 2 APIs in the browser: DOM and the web APIs. As far as writing cohesive logic that does wonderful things that’s on you. Most JS developers would rather it not be on them and instead adopt an Invented Here Syndrome mentality. The fear of writing any original code is very real. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invented_here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invented_here
- inimino 7y ago
  20+ years of web experience, and the current tools are mostly trash.
jmnicolas 7y ago
I'm a WPF dev. I wouldn't mind learning iOS / Android / QT or whatever heavy client framework and language. But when I see the mess that front end web dev have to deal with, yes I'm very skeptical !
flukus 7y ago
I've built UI's with Qt, Gtk, swing, VBA, Access, winforms, WPF, TK, html/css and more I can't remember and I stay away from front end webdev these days because the tools are such a tyre fire and way less productive than what we were using > 20 years ago. I find the people that like most of the current tooling grew up with it, don't know any better and don't want to learn.
- ng12 7y ago
  > Qt, Gtk, swing, VBA, Access, winforms, WPF, TK These aren't web-native so I don't think the comparison is particularly salient. Building on the web is a business requirement, all the tools are to make that requirement manageable.

by ng12 7y ago

I always find it interesting that the people who unabashedly admit they have minimal front-end experience usually have the strongest condemnation of the current tools.

csande17 7y ago

It's more understandable if you think about it the other way around: people who don't like the current front-end tools usually try to avoid contact with them. Which these days, mostly means not doing professional front-end development.

mosselman 7y ago

Don’t worry. People with a lot of front-end experience, in this case me, also condemn the current tools.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
oggadog 7y ago
Can I ask what sort of front-end frameworks/tools you use that you also condemn?
- austincheney 7y ago
  Most of them are merely abstraction layers for capabilities the browsers already provide. Rarely do they offer anything more. The big selling point is that they help organize the logic in a declarative way or automate a bunch of tiresome tasks that wouldn’t be there in the first place had you not used a mountain of tooling. There are only 2 APIs in the browser: DOM and the web APIs. As far as writing cohesive logic that does wonderful things that’s on you. Most JS developers would rather it not be on them and instead adopt an Invented Here Syndrome mentality. The fear of writing any original code is very real. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invented_here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invented_here
inimino 7y ago
20+ years of web experience, and the current tools are mostly trash.

jmnicolas 7y ago

I'm a WPF dev. I wouldn't mind learning iOS / Android / QT or whatever heavy client framework and language. But when I see the mess that front end web dev have to deal with, yes I'm very skeptical !

flukus 7y ago

I've built UI's with Qt, Gtk, swing, VBA, Access, winforms, WPF, TK, html/css and more I can't remember and I stay away from front end webdev these days because the tools are such a tyre fire and way less productive than what we were using > 20 years ago. I find the people that like most of the current tooling grew up with it, don't know any better and don't want to learn.

ng12 7y ago
> Qt, Gtk, swing, VBA, Access, winforms, WPF, TK These aren't web-native so I don't think the comparison is particularly salient. Building on the web is a business requirement, all the tools are to make that requirement manageable.