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> we don't need to bring the whole world down to the lowest common denominator. ... says the man who isn't disabled.

backupcavalry 7y ago
While I get what you mean, he's right: there's a line that's going to get drawn somewhere, like as not. Now where exactly is something beyond my ken but there are definitely things that will never be viable for the disabled. In all honesty? I'd rather devote the resources to helping disabled people function fully (or near-fully) again. But that in of itself is sort of wishful thinking.
- mondoshawan 7y ago
  I would love to be able to walk just like anyone normal. Instead, I deal with major pain every day of my life because assholes like you refuse to build in basic, small things like a fucking chair to sit on while waiting, usually because "it would hurt the asthetics" or some dumb notion like it (ie: apple store, malls, amusement parks...). ADA is the lowest common denominator. Its not asking for you to rebuild a whole building -- it asks for reasonable concessions to be made -- and its absolutely amazing how business owners go out of their way to make it harder on themselves and the disabled. What I don't understand is this "line" that "must be drawn" I've seen from you and others: the point is to negotiate and find a compromise between the disabled and the owner within reasonable limits. The fact that businesses and public institutions are unwilling to play ball and throw their toys out of the pram every time this comes up is amazing and sad that it even comes to that point. Usually because upfront investment in the material/business is smaller and usually beneficial for everyone in the long run! In TFA, crema bought the location years after ADA was already law. The fact that it became a risk to them now is unsurprising, and the fact that they're closing that location is sad for both parties. The fact that it's also possibly a predatory lawsuit is also sad, and I hope something that can be rectified -- but I'm also not surprised to hear of such high numbers of lawsuits over the problem, given how old the law is now, and given how many places I have been to in the valley that don't have ramps.
  - burgerboy 7y ago
    Just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't make them an asshole. If anything you are being the asshole here by throwing insults.
barrkel 7y ago
Most people aren't disabled. The line cannot be absolute - that's not fair on the abled either.
- mondoshawan 7y ago
  Reasonable concessions can be made, at least out of sympathy for your fellow human. You can probably walk more than 1000 feet without serious pain. I can't, but you can't tell outwardly until I'm sitting on the ground in tears because of the pain. This line of reasoning is why finding a disabled parking spot when I need one is an act in frustration -- usually because people who don't need it park there because "it'll just be a minute, and there aren't that many handicapped people out there..." You can walk that extra distance. To me, that extra distance determines whether or not I can finish my day in a little pain, or have to stop early because it hurts too much.
  - barrkel 7y ago
    Reasonable concessions can be made, of course; but that's not what I'm arguing against. I'm saying that all possible concessions can't be made.
    - mondoshawan 7y ago
      Of course not, but neither can all possible disabilities be accounted for, which is why the law was written the way it was. Nobody is arguing for all possible concessions to be made. That's a straw man you created yourself.

While I get what you mean, he's right: there's a line that's going to get drawn somewhere, like as not. Now where exactly is something beyond my ken but there are definitely things that will never be viable for the disabled. In all honesty? I'd rather devote the resources to helping disabled people function fully (or near-fully) again. But that in of itself is sort of wishful thinking.

mondoshawan 7y ago
I would love to be able to walk just like anyone normal. Instead, I deal with major pain every day of my life because assholes like you refuse to build in basic, small things like a fucking chair to sit on while waiting, usually because "it would hurt the asthetics" or some dumb notion like it (ie: apple store, malls, amusement parks...). ADA is the lowest common denominator. Its not asking for you to rebuild a whole building -- it asks for reasonable concessions to be made -- and its absolutely amazing how business owners go out of their way to make it harder on themselves and the disabled. What I don't understand is this "line" that "must be drawn" I've seen from you and others: the point is to negotiate and find a compromise between the disabled and the owner within reasonable limits. The fact that businesses and public institutions are unwilling to play ball and throw their toys out of the pram every time this comes up is amazing and sad that it even comes to that point. Usually because upfront investment in the material/business is smaller and usually beneficial for everyone in the long run! In TFA, crema bought the location years after ADA was already law. The fact that it became a risk to them now is unsurprising, and the fact that they're closing that location is sad for both parties. The fact that it's also possibly a predatory lawsuit is also sad, and I hope something that can be rectified -- but I'm also not surprised to hear of such high numbers of lawsuits over the problem, given how old the law is now, and given how many places I have been to in the valley that don't have ramps.
- burgerboy 7y ago
  Just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't make them an asshole. If anything you are being the asshole here by throwing insults.

barrkel 7y ago

Most people aren't disabled. The line cannot be absolute - that's not fair on the abled either.

mondoshawan 7y ago
Reasonable concessions can be made, at least out of sympathy for your fellow human. You can probably walk more than 1000 feet without serious pain. I can't, but you can't tell outwardly until I'm sitting on the ground in tears because of the pain. This line of reasoning is why finding a disabled parking spot when I need one is an act in frustration -- usually because people who don't need it park there because "it'll just be a minute, and there aren't that many handicapped people out there..." You can walk that extra distance. To me, that extra distance determines whether or not I can finish my day in a little pain, or have to stop early because it hurts too much.
- barrkel 7y ago
  Reasonable concessions can be made, of course; but that's not what I'm arguing against. I'm saying that all possible concessions can't be made.
  - mondoshawan 7y ago
    Of course not, but neither can all possible disabilities be accounted for, which is why the law was written the way it was. Nobody is arguing for all possible concessions to be made. That's a straw man you created yourself.