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It's a problematic comparison because few people in Canada earns $170K CAD writing software unless they are contracting for the government. Even then. There ar

by jariel 7y ago

It's a problematic comparison because few people in Canada earns $170K CAD writing software unless they are contracting for the government. Even then. There are a few people lucky enough to 'make the deal' that you have. Also, there are very few 'great companies' in Canada to work for, that can leverage high end talent - Canada is 1/10th the size of the US and spends less than 1/2 on R&D per capita. This is because Canada doesn't generally have the kinds of companies that are R&D intensive. Unfortunately. I think most Toronto devs would happily move to California for a huge pay increase and a chance to work for a 'great company' whereas I feel few wold do the reverse. I'm really wary of reading NPR articles like this because I feel they are basically playing the facts into a narrative of their political viewpoint.

mcpherrinm 7y ago
Well, we're hiring. https://careers.squareup.com/us/en/jobs?location%5B%5D=Toronto%2C%20Canada&role%5B%5D=Software%20Engineering https://careers.squareup.com/us/en/jobs?location%5B%5D=Toron... I acknowledge I'm not in a position many will find themselves in. The shortage of senior engineering positions that pay accordingly is real. There's much more selection of jobs in SF than TO.
gdilla 7y ago
It really depends on many factors. New grads? Sure, who wouldn't move to Cali from Canada. Married, kids, spouse working in non tech? Well, ya, staying in Canada is a lot better if one earner can get a high paying tech salary that's becoming more common now.
mabbo 7y ago
Amazon has 1300 people in Toronto, nearly all devs. For an sde2, 170k CAD total comp (salary + RSUs) is pretty typical. Vancouver office had 2200 people, similar situation.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Currently the exchange rate is .77, so $170k CAD is $128,025.30 USD. That's nothin to shake a stick at, but by NYC, DC, Seattle, LA, SF, etc. rates it is middling. Meanwhile, SDE2 at Amazon or others is like $200K USD, at least according to HN a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18439144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18439144 Seattle is expensive as hell these days, but Vancouver still blows it out of the water, and Toronto isn't cheap either; an improvement over SV or Manhattan, for sure, but not like Raleigh-Durham or rural Arkansas.
  - mabbo 7y ago
    Sure, I'm not saying I couldn't make more if I left Toronto. As a Canadian, it would be easy for me to do that. Most of my office could easily get jobs in the USA paying more. Even those with potential visa issues have a much easier time once they're established in Canada. But we don't. The marginal increase in my pay is not enough for me to want to move to the USA. The anti-immigrant rhetoric and the laws that follow that rhetoric make it not a place I, or many others, aspire to move to. We're happier to make less money, but feel more secure and safe (in many ways).
    - blaser-waffle 7y ago
      That's not marginal, that's damn near 40%, ballpark of 80k USD per year difference. That's close to $100K CAD per year. And while the current state of play in the US is rather odious, the idea that you'd be less secure or safe in somewhere like NYC or SF is laughable. The only places I've even been accosted on the street were in Melbourne, Australia and Brampton, Ontario. The rhetoric and laws you dread are mostly, or entirely, perception; make no mistake they're a thing, but heavily magnified by a media machine based on getting eyeballs and reactions. Like, the Prairie Provinces are solidly conservative -- AB even took a crack at banning gay marriage a little while back -- and ON managed to vote in yet another Ford. I'm happy to sit out the Trump years north of the border, but if an offer with another $100K on top of what I'm making now floated my way but required me to be in California, or NYC, or DC, I'd be hard pressed to ignore it.
      - 7y ago
hylaride 7y ago
> It's a problematic comparison because few people in Canada earns $170K CAD writing software unless they are contracting for the government. Even then. In Toronto if you’re an experienced sr engineer you can get this in the tech scene. It’s a much smaller employment pool, it it’s there. And there is a lot of r&d happening within that scene. That’s nothing to say of remotely working for an SV company. The tech scene has exploded here over the past 2-3 years.

by jariel 7y ago

mcpherrinm 7y ago

Well, we're hiring. https://careers.squareup.com/us/en/jobs?location%5B%5D=Toronto%2C%20Canada&role%5B%5D=Software%20Engineering https://careers.squareup.com/us/en/jobs?location%5B%5D=Toron... I acknowledge I'm not in a position many will find themselves in. The shortage of senior engineering positions that pay accordingly is real. There's much more selection of jobs in SF than TO.

gdilla 7y ago

It really depends on many factors. New grads? Sure, who wouldn't move to Cali from Canada. Married, kids, spouse working in non tech? Well, ya, staying in Canada is a lot better if one earner can get a high paying tech salary that's becoming more common now.

mabbo 7y ago

Amazon has 1300 people in Toronto, nearly all devs. For an sde2, 170k CAD total comp (salary + RSUs) is pretty typical. Vancouver office had 2200 people, similar situation.

blaser-waffle 7y ago
Currently the exchange rate is .77, so $170k CAD is $128,025.30 USD. That's nothin to shake a stick at, but by NYC, DC, Seattle, LA, SF, etc. rates it is middling. Meanwhile, SDE2 at Amazon or others is like $200K USD, at least according to HN a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18439144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18439144 Seattle is expensive as hell these days, but Vancouver still blows it out of the water, and Toronto isn't cheap either; an improvement over SV or Manhattan, for sure, but not like Raleigh-Durham or rural Arkansas.
- mabbo 7y ago
  Sure, I'm not saying I couldn't make more if I left Toronto. As a Canadian, it would be easy for me to do that. Most of my office could easily get jobs in the USA paying more. Even those with potential visa issues have a much easier time once they're established in Canada. But we don't. The marginal increase in my pay is not enough for me to want to move to the USA. The anti-immigrant rhetoric and the laws that follow that rhetoric make it not a place I, or many others, aspire to move to. We're happier to make less money, but feel more secure and safe (in many ways).
  - blaser-waffle 7y ago
    That's not marginal, that's damn near 40%, ballpark of 80k USD per year difference. That's close to $100K CAD per year. And while the current state of play in the US is rather odious, the idea that you'd be less secure or safe in somewhere like NYC or SF is laughable. The only places I've even been accosted on the street were in Melbourne, Australia and Brampton, Ontario. The rhetoric and laws you dread are mostly, or entirely, perception; make no mistake they're a thing, but heavily magnified by a media machine based on getting eyeballs and reactions. Like, the Prairie Provinces are solidly conservative -- AB even took a crack at banning gay marriage a little while back -- and ON managed to vote in yet another Ford. I'm happy to sit out the Trump years north of the border, but if an offer with another $100K on top of what I'm making now floated my way but required me to be in California, or NYC, or DC, I'd be hard pressed to ignore it.
    - 7y ago

hylaride 7y ago

> It's a problematic comparison because few people in Canada earns $170K CAD writing software unless they are contracting for the government. Even then. In Toronto if you’re an experienced sr engineer you can get this in the tech scene. It’s a much smaller employment pool, it it’s there. And there is a lot of r&d happening within that scene. That’s nothing to say of remotely working for an SV company. The tech scene has exploded here over the past 2-3 years.