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The USA's history on this hasn't been stellar. The breakup of AT&T is testament to that.

by kick 7y ago

Teever 7y ago
Can you elaborate on that?
- lioeters 7y ago
  Perhaps it's a reference to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
- kick 7y ago
  Sure! Most of the RBOCs were purchased...by other RBOCs, or AT&T itself. The research output of AT&T halved. The well-regulated monopoly was sacrificed for what is now more or less unregulated yet governmentally-defended triopolies in every area AT&T was touching, and then some. The quality of the service has dropped dramatically, even if there was cost reduction (which arguably is tied to said decline in quality). There was a great book written by two engineers working on the Bell System a few decades ago with a rather rotten title, but a subtitle that'll allow you to find the book just the same: The Criminal Wrecking of the Best Telephone System in the World. I found it really fascinating in many ways, although I'll admit that it served to justify my own beliefs, rather than making me change them, so I could be biased.
sailfast 7y ago
So, the Standard Oil and Bell breakups didn't work out? Do you still have to pay to rent your telephone handset hardware each month? Also I don't think in this case that the determination that something requires action to mitigate anti-competitive behavior means that the government declares what happens. Not a lawyer, and have not read any precedent but I'd imagine a first step would be to ask these companies about a structure that would work best if business units were separated, with some guidance, rather than some declaratory thing.
- ndesaulniers 7y ago
  It's common in the US to rent your DOCSIS modem.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - loeg 7y ago
    But importantly, not required. Cable ISPs just make it easy to give them more money, which is the normal incentive for any business. You don't have to rent a modem to buy internet service.
    - magicalist 7y ago
      > You don't have to rent a modem to buy internet service. As required by law[1], though, definitely not by choice[2]. [1] https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=0083f0a8d5afabe6705a4b8738d84113&mc=true&r=SECTION&n=se47.4.76_11201 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=0083f0a8d5... [2] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/charter-blocked-customer-owned-modems-for-two-years-must-pay-fine/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/chart...
- kick 7y ago
  Quality of calls has dropped through the floor, instead of a well-regulated, government-enforced monopoly, we now have poorly-regulated, government-enforced triopolies on a variety of services (telephony, networking, television, the physical routing thereof, et cetera), most of the aforementioned triopolies partially or entirely consisting of Baby Bells that purchased other Baby Bells... Yeah, I'd definitely say it didn't work out. The Standard Oil breakup was mostly useless, their monopoly power had mostly dissolved as they weren't anywhere near a monopoly by the time it happened, and for that matter, it rewarded Rockefeller by making his wealth skyrocket.
  - trentnix 7y ago
    AT&T was broken up in 1982. Call quality is quite a bit better since then. In the country, we had a party line up to that point. Same location today is still rural but has digital telephony, high speed Internet, and multiple cellular providers.
CamperBob2 7y ago
That's ... interesting. How old are you, and how much do you know about how the US telephone system used to work, and how much it cost to use?

The USA's history on this hasn't been stellar. The breakup of AT&T is testament to that.

by kick 7y ago

The USA's history on this hasn't been stellar. The breakup of AT&T is testament to that.

Teever 7y ago

Can you elaborate on that?

lioeters 7y ago
Perhaps it's a reference to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
kick 7y ago
Sure! Most of the RBOCs were purchased...by other RBOCs, or AT&T itself. The research output of AT&T halved. The well-regulated monopoly was sacrificed for what is now more or less unregulated yet governmentally-defended triopolies in every area AT&T was touching, and then some. The quality of the service has dropped dramatically, even if there was cost reduction (which arguably is tied to said decline in quality). There was a great book written by two engineers working on the Bell System a few decades ago with a rather rotten title, but a subtitle that'll allow you to find the book just the same: The Criminal Wrecking of the Best Telephone System in the World. I found it really fascinating in many ways, although I'll admit that it served to justify my own beliefs, rather than making me change them, so I could be biased.

sailfast 7y ago

So, the Standard Oil and Bell breakups didn't work out? Do you still have to pay to rent your telephone handset hardware each month? Also I don't think in this case that the determination that something requires action to mitigate anti-competitive behavior means that the government declares what happens. Not a lawyer, and have not read any precedent but I'd imagine a first step would be to ask these companies about a structure that would work best if business units were separated, with some guidance, rather than some declaratory thing.

ndesaulniers 7y ago
It's common in the US to rent your DOCSIS modem.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- loeg 7y ago
  But importantly, not required. Cable ISPs just make it easy to give them more money, which is the normal incentive for any business. You don't have to rent a modem to buy internet service.
  - magicalist 7y ago
    > You don't have to rent a modem to buy internet service. As required by law[1], though, definitely not by choice[2]. [1] https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=0083f0a8d5afabe6705a4b8738d84113&mc=true&r=SECTION&n=se47.4.76_11201 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=0083f0a8d5... [2] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/charter-blocked-customer-owned-modems-for-two-years-must-pay-fine/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/05/chart...
kick 7y ago
Quality of calls has dropped through the floor, instead of a well-regulated, government-enforced monopoly, we now have poorly-regulated, government-enforced triopolies on a variety of services (telephony, networking, television, the physical routing thereof, et cetera), most of the aforementioned triopolies partially or entirely consisting of Baby Bells that purchased other Baby Bells... Yeah, I'd definitely say it didn't work out. The Standard Oil breakup was mostly useless, their monopoly power had mostly dissolved as they weren't anywhere near a monopoly by the time it happened, and for that matter, it rewarded Rockefeller by making his wealth skyrocket.
- trentnix 7y ago
  AT&T was broken up in 1982. Call quality is quite a bit better since then. In the country, we had a party line up to that point. Same location today is still rural but has digital telephony, high speed Internet, and multiple cellular providers.

CamperBob2 7y ago

That's ... interesting. How old are you, and how much do you know about how the US telephone system used to work, and how much it cost to use?