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Because right now Google has enormous value because people trust it. I believe they won't do something horrible with my data because if they did, it would poten

Because right now Google has enormous value because people trust it. I believe they won't do something horrible with my data because if they did, it would potentially erase billions of dollars of value from their share price. Yet. If I start feeling like Google operates as a compromise with the Trump administration, it super freaks me out. Kind of like what happened with Facebook?

Karunamon 7y ago
At the risk of sounding overly snarky, what exactly has google done to secure or gain, rather than piss away trust at every conceivable turn? Maintain solid products? Google kills more products than they run. Stewardship of customer information? They're the biggest advertiser and have had multiple scandals. Good customer service? Not in this universe. Clear rules? Ask anyone that's lost their entire google account, email included, for a BS accusation of click fraud. I think I trust my phone company more than I trust Google.
- temporalparts 7y ago
  I'll bite. > Maintain solid products? Google kills more products than they run. Google Search, Youtube, Gmail, Google Maps are all amazing free products that have immensely benefited the world. Yeah, they kill a bunch of products, but that doesn't mean they don't maintain solid, if not amazing, products. > Stewardship of customer information? They're the biggest advertiser and have had multiple scandals. Do you have any evidence that Google sells non-anonymized customer data to advertisers? Can you cite a Google scandal about selling your data? Complying with subpoenas or government authority notwithstanding. > Good customer service? Not in this universe. Yeah, I agree with this one lol. > Clear rules? Ask anyone that's lost their entire google account, email included, for a BS accusation of click fraud. Yeah, I agree on the rules being opaque. > I think I trust my phone company more than I trust Google. I don't know what country you live in, but if you're in the US, do you mean the people making your phone (Huawei, Xiaomi, ... or you know Google) or the carriers who have been selling your location data [0]? [0] https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/31/carriers-violated-federal-law-by-selling-your-location-data-fcc-tells-congress/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/31/carriers-violated-federal-...
  - Karunamon 7y ago
    Gmail can't be trusted to actually deliver messages to the recipient's inbox (one of the reasons I left them), YouTube is in the process of imploding with insane content restrictions and copyright claim abuse. Maps is actually really good, I'll give you that. By carriers, I meant the mobile carriers. I can at least avoid them. Avoiding Google is significantly more difficult. >Do you have any evidence that Google sells non-anonymized customer data to advertisers? That's a rather specific subset of "multiple scandals" that I didn't say or imply. As to what they've been doing wrong, we could start with the recently uncovered uniquely generated tracking ID in Chrome (currently on the front page), or the Google+ data leak that led to the service being shut down, or the email scanning for ad targeting that was happening as late as 2017, or when they had to fire an engineer for snooping through people's gmail accounts. All of these tell me that their internal controls are not that great. What puts the topping on the shit sundae for me is that they're an advertising company at the end of the day. Their user's privacy interests and their own interests will be perpetually at odds. That by itself makes them unworthy of trust in my eyes.
    - paulddraper 7y ago
      In 12 years of using Gmail, I have never had a problem with it delivering my mail. Perhaps I was just lucky?
birdyrooster 7y ago
No, they have enormous value because people have limited choice.
- pb7 7y ago
  For which Google products do people have limited choice in alternatives?
  - birdyrooster 7y ago
    AdSense, Search, and YouTube
    - pb7 7y ago
      All of those have alternatives. Bing? DuckDuckGo? Qwant? Vimeo? DailyMotion? MetaCafe? Even Facebook Video. As for ads, there are so many I don’t even know what their relative ordering is.
      - birdyrooster 7y ago
        You've made my point for me. Incredibly limited offerings for alternatives.
        pb7 7y ago
        And this is Google’s fault, how? How many options do you need? There are more options for each than I have Internet providers but no one is talking anti-trust there.
        Karunamon 7y ago
        Options existing doesn't make them viable. Excluding Google in favor of advertising on also-ran search engines like Bing or DDG loses you a huge amount of visibility, for example. Searching? Again, Google in clear first place, everyone else tied for last. Video? Nobody uses Vimeo, and their content rules are even more strict than YouTube's. A couple of those names I've never even heard of before.

Karunamon 7y ago

At the risk of sounding overly snarky, what exactly has google done to secure or gain, rather than piss away trust at every conceivable turn? Maintain solid products? Google kills more products than they run. Stewardship of customer information? They're the biggest advertiser and have had multiple scandals. Good customer service? Not in this universe. Clear rules? Ask anyone that's lost their entire google account, email included, for a BS accusation of click fraud. I think I trust my phone company more than I trust Google.

temporalparts 7y ago
I'll bite. > Maintain solid products? Google kills more products than they run. Google Search, Youtube, Gmail, Google Maps are all amazing free products that have immensely benefited the world. Yeah, they kill a bunch of products, but that doesn't mean they don't maintain solid, if not amazing, products. > Stewardship of customer information? They're the biggest advertiser and have had multiple scandals. Do you have any evidence that Google sells non-anonymized customer data to advertisers? Can you cite a Google scandal about selling your data? Complying with subpoenas or government authority notwithstanding. > Good customer service? Not in this universe. Yeah, I agree with this one lol. > Clear rules? Ask anyone that's lost their entire google account, email included, for a BS accusation of click fraud. Yeah, I agree on the rules being opaque. > I think I trust my phone company more than I trust Google. I don't know what country you live in, but if you're in the US, do you mean the people making your phone (Huawei, Xiaomi, ... or you know Google) or the carriers who have been selling your location data [0]? [0] https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/31/carriers-violated-federal-law-by-selling-your-location-data-fcc-tells-congress/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/31/carriers-violated-federal-...
- Karunamon 7y ago
  Gmail can't be trusted to actually deliver messages to the recipient's inbox (one of the reasons I left them), YouTube is in the process of imploding with insane content restrictions and copyright claim abuse. Maps is actually really good, I'll give you that. By carriers, I meant the mobile carriers. I can at least avoid them. Avoiding Google is significantly more difficult. >Do you have any evidence that Google sells non-anonymized customer data to advertisers? That's a rather specific subset of "multiple scandals" that I didn't say or imply. As to what they've been doing wrong, we could start with the recently uncovered uniquely generated tracking ID in Chrome (currently on the front page), or the Google+ data leak that led to the service being shut down, or the email scanning for ad targeting that was happening as late as 2017, or when they had to fire an engineer for snooping through people's gmail accounts. All of these tell me that their internal controls are not that great. What puts the topping on the shit sundae for me is that they're an advertising company at the end of the day. Their user's privacy interests and their own interests will be perpetually at odds. That by itself makes them unworthy of trust in my eyes.
  - paulddraper 7y ago
    In 12 years of using Gmail, I have never had a problem with it delivering my mail. Perhaps I was just lucky?

birdyrooster 7y ago

No, they have enormous value because people have limited choice.

pb7 7y ago
For which Google products do people have limited choice in alternatives?
- birdyrooster 7y ago
  AdSense, Search, and YouTube
  - pb7 7y ago
    All of those have alternatives. Bing? DuckDuckGo? Qwant? Vimeo? DailyMotion? MetaCafe? Even Facebook Video. As for ads, there are so many I don’t even know what their relative ordering is.
    - birdyrooster 7y ago
      You've made my point for me. Incredibly limited offerings for alternatives.
      - pb7 7y ago
        And this is Google’s fault, how? How many options do you need? There are more options for each than I have Internet providers but no one is talking anti-trust there.
        Karunamon 7y ago
        Options existing doesn't make them viable. Excluding Google in favor of advertising on also-ran search engines like Bing or DDG loses you a huge amount of visibility, for example. Searching? Again, Google in clear first place, everyone else tied for last. Video? Nobody uses Vimeo, and their content rules are even more strict than YouTube's. A couple of those names I've never even heard of before.