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If they're sufficiently motivated to want the job, they will jump through the hoops. If the job's not worth it to the candidate, they won't complete the task.

If they're sufficiently motivated to want the job, they will jump through the hoops. If the job's not worth it to the candidate, they won't complete the task. Easy.

rozap 7y ago
Or they're selecting for people who don't have many options.
mellosouls 7y ago
Good luck finding remotely decent candidates without an extraordinary offer at the end of significant unpaid work. Remember, it's a two way process; any candidate worth their salt is interviewing the company. If the candidate is worth it to the company, they won't expect them to jump through absurd hoops, and will treat them with at least a professional minimum of respect.
- ExtraServings 7y ago
  That just exposes our different view of where the bottlenecks are - you believe there are a limited number of coders who are up to the task - I believe there are less opportunities than 'adequate to the task' coders. Which is true? Nobody really knows.
  - mellosouls 7y ago
    That's a fair point regarding balance wrt jobs/devs though the general market would seem to indicate good devs have no problems getting jobs. But I don't see how it carries over to companies expecting a huge investment from a developer up front (a week's work, unpaid!), without some major positive differentiator from the other companies requiring decent devs. That isn't going to appeal to any developer with options. What's the upside, why would they invest that time - just go to the non-presumptive company next door.
procombo 7y ago
Thanks for doing that. Back when I hired a lot I'd always ask candidates how their job search was going and what other businesses they are excited about besides mine. Kind of tacky, but it always alleviated nerves on both sides of the table. Companies with attitides like yours would always come up. What some companies ask candidates to do during their job search is pretty ridiculous. Hoop jumping is probably required for their first couple jobs, but after that the employers are the ones competing for talent.
chillacy 7y ago
Isn’t this the same thing people who like whiteboard interviews say? “We know Leetcode is a hoop and the most motivated will grind 200 leetcode problems”
huebomont 7y ago
Thinking like this loses you candidates who are applying to multiple places. It's so hubristic to think that your job couldn't possibly be equally desirable to others.

If they're sufficiently motivated to want the job, they will jump through the hoops. If the job's not worth it to the candidate, they won't complete the task. Easy.

rozap 7y ago

Or they're selecting for people who don't have many options.

mellosouls 7y ago

Good luck finding remotely decent candidates without an extraordinary offer at the end of significant unpaid work. Remember, it's a two way process; any candidate worth their salt is interviewing the company. If the candidate is worth it to the company, they won't expect them to jump through absurd hoops, and will treat them with at least a professional minimum of respect.

ExtraServings 7y ago
That just exposes our different view of where the bottlenecks are - you believe there are a limited number of coders who are up to the task - I believe there are less opportunities than 'adequate to the task' coders. Which is true? Nobody really knows.
- mellosouls 7y ago
  That's a fair point regarding balance wrt jobs/devs though the general market would seem to indicate good devs have no problems getting jobs. But I don't see how it carries over to companies expecting a huge investment from a developer up front (a week's work, unpaid!), without some major positive differentiator from the other companies requiring decent devs. That isn't going to appeal to any developer with options. What's the upside, why would they invest that time - just go to the non-presumptive company next door.

procombo 7y ago

Thanks for doing that. Back when I hired a lot I'd always ask candidates how their job search was going and what other businesses they are excited about besides mine. Kind of tacky, but it always alleviated nerves on both sides of the table. Companies with attitides like yours would always come up. What some companies ask candidates to do during their job search is pretty ridiculous. Hoop jumping is probably required for their first couple jobs, but after that the employers are the ones competing for talent.

chillacy 7y ago

Isn’t this the same thing people who like whiteboard interviews say? “We know Leetcode is a hoop and the most motivated will grind 200 leetcode problems”

huebomont 7y ago

Thinking like this loses you candidates who are applying to multiple places. It's so hubristic to think that your job couldn't possibly be equally desirable to others.