8 ms·

What happened to the old wisdom "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?" We know how many diseases start, why almost no discussion of prevention when

What happened to the old wisdom "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?" We know how many diseases start, why almost no discussion of prevention when vaccines are brought up as if they are the only way (or even best way) to deal with diseases?

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
> why almost no discussion of prevention when vaccines are brought up as if they are the only way (or even best way) to deal with diseases? I would love to hear your thoughts on how flu or measles can be reliably prevented on a population basis without the use of vaccines?
- artificialLimbs 7y ago
  For flu: elderberry extract. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190423133644.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190423133644.h...
  - magduf 7y ago
    According to your article, this might help ease the symptoms of the flu. So it's just as useful in prevention as decongestants, cough drops, expectorant, and other such drugs: not at all. It just helps you get through the infection.
    - artificialLimbs 7y ago
      Anecdata: I got the flu a couple years ago. I didn't go to the doctor to get it "officially" confirmed, but I've had the flu many times prior in my life. It was the flu. I was laying in my bed literally crying, sleeping, sweating, or some combination of the 3 all day. My wife knew about this property of elderberry and had already made some extract with the highest grain alcohol she could get in the store and fresh elderberries from our bushes. She fed me several spoonfuls through the day. The next day I was working in the yard. It was by far the shortest episode of the flu I have ever had.
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  You can't prevent a "disease" from happening anymore than you can prevent a car crash. But there is more than just air-bags for car crashes. There is crumple zones, seat belts, a-frames and all kinds of things. So why not discuss all other options for preventing disease? If you say there are none, there is no point in trying to educate you from nothing, go google some stuff about prevention.
dylan604 7y ago
It is not in the best interest of Big Pharma to cure anything. The best possible outcome for Big Pharma is to develop products that makes everything chronic so that you can live as long as you continue taking their product. For the rest of your life you will be refilling your prescriptions. You know, HaaS, health as a service. Just make sure you update your payment method when your credit card info changes.
yellowapple 7y ago
Vaccines are prevention.
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  There are a category of people that vaccines are useless for. Elderly and very young who have very weak systems. People are deathly ill with some other disease already. And people with no immune system at all. (auto-immune disease) These categories (and maybe others) are widely known (no disputes what so ever) in the medical industry. So why do people get so irrational around any discussions about vaccines? They simply don't help everyone, this is a fact.
  - yellowapple 7y ago
    > There are a category of people that vaccines are useless for. And as long as everyone else interacting with those people are vaccinated, those people will benefit from herd immunity. That is: vaccines are prevention, even for those people who cannot be vaccinated. > So why do people get so irrational around any discussions about vaccines? Because "discussions about vaccines" almost always ends up being a dogwhistle for "vaccines are harmful" and/or "people who can be vaccinated shouldn't be vaccinated".
    - RobertRoberts 7y ago
      Vaccines are not the only prevention methods. Look at the CDC links. Vaccines are a sacred cow to too many people. They have flaws and aren't perfect.
      - yellowapple 7y ago
        Everything has flaws. That doesn't mean we should disregard them. Vaccines are an effective first line of defense. If you are able to be vaccinated, there is zero good reason to not do so (besides perhaps cost, but they're typically a lot cheaper than other methods of prevention). It ain't about "sacred cows"; it's about what actually works and is safe and effective and practical, and vaccines are all of the above.
Accujack 7y ago
>why almost no discussion of prevention Because it's practically impossible to "prevent" diseases like this Coronavirus outbreak. Of course, I suspect what you mean by "prevention" is "stop all these diseased brown people from traveling to where the nice clean white people are".
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  The CDC's full title is: "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention" Are you saying they have labelled themselves incorrectly? The CDC's page on coronavirous discusses prevention: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/about/prevention.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/about/prevention.html Do you think the CDC's list for prevention is pointless? Here's the CDC's list of prevention actions (besides avoiding contact): * Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, especially after going to the bathroom; before eating; and after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing. * If soap and water are not readily available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol. Always wash hands with soap and water if hands are visibly dirty. * Avoid touching your eyes, nose, and mouth with unwashed hands. * Avoid close contact with people who are sick. * Stay home when you are sick. * Cover your cough or sneeze with a tissue, then throw the tissue in the trash. * Clean and disinfect frequently touched objects and surfaces using a regular household cleaning spray or wipe.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago

> why almost no discussion of prevention when vaccines are brought up as if they are the only way (or even best way) to deal with diseases? I would love to hear your thoughts on how flu or measles can be reliably prevented on a population basis without the use of vaccines?

artificialLimbs 7y ago
For flu: elderberry extract. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190423133644.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190423133644.h...
- magduf 7y ago
  According to your article, this might help ease the symptoms of the flu. So it's just as useful in prevention as decongestants, cough drops, expectorant, and other such drugs: not at all. It just helps you get through the infection.
  - artificialLimbs 7y ago
    Anecdata: I got the flu a couple years ago. I didn't go to the doctor to get it "officially" confirmed, but I've had the flu many times prior in my life. It was the flu. I was laying in my bed literally crying, sleeping, sweating, or some combination of the 3 all day. My wife knew about this property of elderberry and had already made some extract with the highest grain alcohol she could get in the store and fresh elderberries from our bushes. She fed me several spoonfuls through the day. The next day I was working in the yard. It was by far the shortest episode of the flu I have ever had.
RobertRoberts 7y ago
You can't prevent a "disease" from happening anymore than you can prevent a car crash. But there is more than just air-bags for car crashes. There is crumple zones, seat belts, a-frames and all kinds of things. So why not discuss all other options for preventing disease? If you say there are none, there is no point in trying to educate you from nothing, go google some stuff about prevention.

dylan604 7y ago

It is not in the best interest of Big Pharma to cure anything. The best possible outcome for Big Pharma is to develop products that makes everything chronic so that you can live as long as you continue taking their product. For the rest of your life you will be refilling your prescriptions. You know, HaaS, health as a service. Just make sure you update your payment method when your credit card info changes.

yellowapple 7y ago

Vaccines are prevention.

RobertRoberts 7y ago
There are a category of people that vaccines are useless for. Elderly and very young who have very weak systems. People are deathly ill with some other disease already. And people with no immune system at all. (auto-immune disease) These categories (and maybe others) are widely known (no disputes what so ever) in the medical industry. So why do people get so irrational around any discussions about vaccines? They simply don't help everyone, this is a fact.
- yellowapple 7y ago
  > There are a category of people that vaccines are useless for. And as long as everyone else interacting with those people are vaccinated, those people will benefit from herd immunity. That is: vaccines are prevention, even for those people who cannot be vaccinated. > So why do people get so irrational around any discussions about vaccines? Because "discussions about vaccines" almost always ends up being a dogwhistle for "vaccines are harmful" and/or "people who can be vaccinated shouldn't be vaccinated".
  - RobertRoberts 7y ago
    Vaccines are not the only prevention methods. Look at the CDC links. Vaccines are a sacred cow to too many people. They have flaws and aren't perfect.
    - yellowapple 7y ago
      Everything has flaws. That doesn't mean we should disregard them. Vaccines are an effective first line of defense. If you are able to be vaccinated, there is zero good reason to not do so (besides perhaps cost, but they're typically a lot cheaper than other methods of prevention). It ain't about "sacred cows"; it's about what actually works and is safe and effective and practical, and vaccines are all of the above.

Accujack 7y ago

>why almost no discussion of prevention Because it's practically impossible to "prevent" diseases like this Coronavirus outbreak. Of course, I suspect what you mean by "prevention" is "stop all these diseased brown people from traveling to where the nice clean white people are".

RobertRoberts 7y ago
The CDC's full title is: "Centers for Disease Control and Prevention" Are you saying they have labelled themselves incorrectly? The CDC's page on coronavirous discusses prevention: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/about/prevention.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/about/prevention.html Do you think the CDC's list for prevention is pointless? Here's the CDC's list of prevention actions (besides avoiding contact): * Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, especially after going to the bathroom; before eating; and after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing. * If soap and water are not readily available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer with at least 60% alcohol. Always wash hands with soap and water if hands are visibly dirty. * Avoid touching your eyes, nose, and mouth with unwashed hands. * Avoid close contact with people who are sick. * Stay home when you are sick. * Cover your cough or sneeze with a tissue, then throw the tissue in the trash. * Clean and disinfect frequently touched objects and surfaces using a regular household cleaning spray or wipe.