14 ms·

In many countries in Europe you can't use cash for large sums. We generally use bank transfers to buy cars.

timlin 7y ago
I'm genuinely curious. Do you need to go to a physical bank location to do this? How do you buy a car in the evening or a Saturday afternoon, when a bank is closed?
- pornel 7y ago
  In the UK online bank transfers work 24/7 and clear in seconds (all banks are required by law to have APIs for fast inter-bank transfers).
  - tialaramex 7y ago
    They're not legally required to be instant, but they usually are. The "ambition" set out legally was half a day, if your transaction is initiated in the morning it should clear that afternoon. It's just that in practice instantly is the realisation of this ambition when things work. And I don't think there's any API requirement, the regulation just explains the consumer experience, that you can transfer relatively small amounts of money (enough for a nice car, not enough for most houses) fast ("Faster Payments" is the name given to this feature), and doesn't dictate how. For large transactions transfer for a fee already existed. CHAPS will move much larger sums of money (it's typically used to buy property so certainly millions but perhaps more) for a modest fee. You wouldn't want that fee on your weekly groceries, but when you just bought a house who cares? Last I looked the backend for Faster Payments wasn't actually built. The big banks decided instead "temporarily" to just trust each other. If Bank A says Cathy sent Mike £5000 then Bank B where Mike's account is will credit Mike £5000 (probably instantly), presumably Bank A will reduce Cathy's account by £5000 and the two banks agree they'll settle things at the end of the day. This is only scary if Bank A might not actually have that £5000 to give Bank B at the end of the day when it's settled, which in principle should never happen under current financial regulations.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  In the UK, and probably most places in Europe, with a debit card.
  - ur-whale 7y ago
    > and probably most places in Europe Incorrect. I tried to buy a new car in France with a credit card. That was an extremely awkward moment. I was kindly told that this was a very weird thing to ask.
    - detaro 7y ago
      Debit cards and credit cards are quite different things in most of Europe.
      - virgilp 7y ago
        To be fair, in Romania I was refused too, ~5years ago. All cards have a percentage fee - when you spend tens of thousands on something, even a small percentage adds up. Thus the car dealers require a bank transfer, which is generally free of charge for both parties.
        Symbiote 7y ago
        It looks like the change in 2015/2016 to reduce card fees, while enabling us to buy a single bottle of milk by card with a 0.2% fee for the merchant, has made things worse for people selling cars. Instead of a small, fixed fee (e.g. £0.10) it's now also 0.2%. https://www.am-online.com/opinion/2016/12/06/opinion-debit-card-charge-changes-to-dent-dealer-margins https://www.am-online.com/opinion/2016/12/06/opinion-debit-c... (The article does at least tell us that "many" customers pay for the full price of the car with a debit card.)
        orthoxerox 7y ago
        0.2%? You could probably wring a greater discount from the dealer by haggling half-heartedly.
- marcoseliziario 7y ago
  The same thing here in Brasil since 2002. The only difference that there is an artificial restriction that online transfer between banks outside of banking hours will only clear when the banks open again. Other than that most transfer between banks clear in seconds and can be made from your phone. This artificial restriction is probably going to be lifted this year. And of course, if seller and buyer have accounts in the same bank, there's no business hours requirement, it will clear in seconds not matter what the time of the day. Also, depending on the american bank, I usually am able to cash wire transfers coming from the US in the same day, if the american bank sent the wire during brazilian business hours. Everytime I deal with the American banking system I get appaled by its primitiveness. ACH is basically how banking technology worked on the early 90's in Brasil.
- beojan 7y ago
  You can do it from your phone.
- ur-whale 7y ago
  Buying a car in Europe is a complicated affair, and certainly not something that can be concluded in an afternoon.
  - corford 7y ago
    What? You go to a car dealer, sign, pay and drive away.
    - kgwgk 7y ago
      Don’t you need to register the car in the DMV and get an insurance before you can drive away? That’s definitely the case in the parts of Europe I’m familiar with.
      - petschge 7y ago
        Getting insurance can be done online in about 5 minutes and the registration at the DMV equivalent is your problem (as the buyer) afterwards and can be done anytime in the next 2 weeks.
        kgwgk 7y ago
        I can see that happening for second-hand cars but not for new cars that have to be issued new plates. But maybe things work differently in other countries. “Europe” is not really one place.
        ryanlol 7y ago
        You can usually immediately get temporary transfer plates that’ll be valid for a month everywhere(?) in the EU.
        kgwgk 7y ago
        I got that kind of temporary plates once... at the DMV. It was quick, but they didn’t materialize magically when I needed them. Maybe it’s easier now, though.
- MereInterest 7y ago
  Not necessarily, but safer to do so. I recently bought a used car from a private party, and we went to a lobby of a bank to close the final transaction. I got a cashier's check from the bank, signed it over to the seller, and exchanged the keys/title for the car. This way, neither the buyer nor the seller needs to carry large amounts of cash with them. The cashier's check is not given unless the buyer's account has enough funds to cover it, so the seller doesn't need to worry about a bounced check.
- bradknowles 7y ago
  Even if the bank branch is closed, they usually have private ATMs available that are much more capable than your average US-style ATM. You can do just about anything at those ATMs that you could do inside the branch. At least, that's the way it was back in 2006, when my wife and I moved from Brussels, Belgium back to the US. I remember many long hours sat at one of those ATMs (yes, they had private seating for most of them), paying various bills electronically using the bank account number given to us by the company that sent us the bill.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  Direct account-to-account transfer is supported between all major EU banks. It takes a couple of seconds at most, and it's free.
  - kgwgk 7y ago
    If you mean SEPA instant credit transfers I think they are available only in some countries and they are not free in my experience.
    - kjaftaedi 7y ago
      In my country bank to bank transfers are free and instant. It's extremely convenient to be able to pay anyone any amount at any time with nothing more than your phone.
      - scawf 7y ago
        Sounds like a good way to get mugged with violence.. "Transfer me all of your bank account, right now !!" (To an account opened using fake ids of course)
        majewsky 7y ago
        People with fake IDs are not going to engage in mugging. If you plan out your crimes so much that you have fake IDs ready, it's way safer and more profitable to do some scamming or fraud scheme instead.
    - nemetroid 7y ago
      It depends on the country. Within the EU, SEPA transfers must be no more expensive than the equivalent domestic payment. At least in Sweden, this means that SEPA transfers are free. This rule is new though, it went into effect in December: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32019R0518 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE... > Charges levied by a payment service provider on a payment service user in respect of cross-border payments in euro shall be the same as the charges levied by that payment service provider for corresponding national payments of the same value in the national currency of the Member State in which the payment service provider of the payment service user is located.
Melting_Harps 7y ago
> In many countries in Europe you can't use cash for large sums. We generally use bank transfers to buy cars. Some, like Sweden and Italy, going to extremes to phase cash out of existence, the latter making 'large' cash transaction punishable by jail/fine. I lived in EU during the financial crisis, and when cash got scarce prompting places in Greece to issue their own local currency [1] to do basic transactions (kids in school were passing out due to a lack of food, hospitals were running out of medicine and basic supplies in general) many were confident you would see something like this: Germany hoarding cash while the PIIGS were left to their own devices. Its sad, the problems paper fiat currencies beget: be they the promises of utilitarianism or the illusions of prosperity its one I wish we can finally overcome soon. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/world/europe/in-greece-barter-networks-surge.html https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/world/europe/in-greece-ba...
- kyuudou 7y ago
  >I lived in EU during the financial crisis, and when cash got scarce prompting places in Greece to issue their own local currency [1] to do basic transactions (kids in school were passing out due to a lack of food, hospitals were running out of medicine and basic supplies in general) Didn't something similar recently happen when Modi was trying to ban cash in India? Kinda backfired. Cash (and gold) will probably never die there.
ur-whale 7y ago
>We generally use bank transfers to buy cars. It's actually the only possible way to buy a new car. If you don't believe me, go try and buy a car with a credit card in the EU, see what happens.
- zodiac 7y ago
  Is it possible to buy with cash?
  - Daniel_sk 7y ago
    It's probably not possible in most of EU because there is a limit for cash transaction which is I think 15 000 Euro (not sure if EU wide, but definitely here in Slovakia), over that you need to do a bank-wire transfer. All new cars are paid this way - or you purchase it with a loan / lease and don't need to put down this amount of money at once. Most new car dealers don't even have a cash register and would not take such an amount of money from you in cash. This is due to prevent money-laundering.
  - narag 7y ago
    Not sure about other countries, but in Spain you can't pay anything above three thousand euros (IIRC) in cash. People downvoting others in disbelief should try to find a source by themselves before.
    - martin8412 7y ago
      2500 EUR if you live in Spain https://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.internet/Inicio/_Segmentos_/Ciudadanos/Limitacion_de_pagos_en_efectivo/Limitacion_de_pagos_en_efectivo.shtml https://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.internet/Inicio/_Segme...
  - freeflight 7y ago
    Depends on the country and the amount of cash [0] [0] https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu-consommateurs/PDFs/PDF_EN/Limit_for_cash_payments_in_EU.pdf https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu...
leosarev 7y ago
Funny thing, in Russia everything is backwards. You basically could pay for newspaper with credit card, but car or real estate cost of credit card / bank transfer will be so high, so it's common to pay in cash.

I'm genuinely curious. Do you need to go to a physical bank location to do this? How do you buy a car in the evening or a Saturday afternoon, when a bank is closed?

pornel 7y ago
In the UK online bank transfers work 24/7 and clear in seconds (all banks are required by law to have APIs for fast inter-bank transfers).
- tialaramex 7y ago
  They're not legally required to be instant, but they usually are. The "ambition" set out legally was half a day, if your transaction is initiated in the morning it should clear that afternoon. It's just that in practice instantly is the realisation of this ambition when things work. And I don't think there's any API requirement, the regulation just explains the consumer experience, that you can transfer relatively small amounts of money (enough for a nice car, not enough for most houses) fast ("Faster Payments" is the name given to this feature), and doesn't dictate how. For large transactions transfer for a fee already existed. CHAPS will move much larger sums of money (it's typically used to buy property so certainly millions but perhaps more) for a modest fee. You wouldn't want that fee on your weekly groceries, but when you just bought a house who cares? Last I looked the backend for Faster Payments wasn't actually built. The big banks decided instead "temporarily" to just trust each other. If Bank A says Cathy sent Mike £5000 then Bank B where Mike's account is will credit Mike £5000 (probably instantly), presumably Bank A will reduce Cathy's account by £5000 and the two banks agree they'll settle things at the end of the day. This is only scary if Bank A might not actually have that £5000 to give Bank B at the end of the day when it's settled, which in principle should never happen under current financial regulations.
Symbiote 7y ago
In the UK, and probably most places in Europe, with a debit card.
- ur-whale 7y ago
  > and probably most places in Europe Incorrect. I tried to buy a new car in France with a credit card. That was an extremely awkward moment. I was kindly told that this was a very weird thing to ask.
  - detaro 7y ago
    Debit cards and credit cards are quite different things in most of Europe.
    - virgilp 7y ago
      To be fair, in Romania I was refused too, ~5years ago. All cards have a percentage fee - when you spend tens of thousands on something, even a small percentage adds up. Thus the car dealers require a bank transfer, which is generally free of charge for both parties.
      - Symbiote 7y ago
        It looks like the change in 2015/2016 to reduce card fees, while enabling us to buy a single bottle of milk by card with a 0.2% fee for the merchant, has made things worse for people selling cars. Instead of a small, fixed fee (e.g. £0.10) it's now also 0.2%. https://www.am-online.com/opinion/2016/12/06/opinion-debit-card-charge-changes-to-dent-dealer-margins https://www.am-online.com/opinion/2016/12/06/opinion-debit-c... (The article does at least tell us that "many" customers pay for the full price of the car with a debit card.)
        orthoxerox 7y ago
        0.2%? You could probably wring a greater discount from the dealer by haggling half-heartedly.
marcoseliziario 7y ago
The same thing here in Brasil since 2002. The only difference that there is an artificial restriction that online transfer between banks outside of banking hours will only clear when the banks open again. Other than that most transfer between banks clear in seconds and can be made from your phone. This artificial restriction is probably going to be lifted this year. And of course, if seller and buyer have accounts in the same bank, there's no business hours requirement, it will clear in seconds not matter what the time of the day. Also, depending on the american bank, I usually am able to cash wire transfers coming from the US in the same day, if the american bank sent the wire during brazilian business hours. Everytime I deal with the American banking system I get appaled by its primitiveness. ACH is basically how banking technology worked on the early 90's in Brasil.
beojan 7y ago
You can do it from your phone.
ur-whale 7y ago
Buying a car in Europe is a complicated affair, and certainly not something that can be concluded in an afternoon.
- corford 7y ago
  What? You go to a car dealer, sign, pay and drive away.
  - kgwgk 7y ago
    Don’t you need to register the car in the DMV and get an insurance before you can drive away? That’s definitely the case in the parts of Europe I’m familiar with.
    - petschge 7y ago
      Getting insurance can be done online in about 5 minutes and the registration at the DMV equivalent is your problem (as the buyer) afterwards and can be done anytime in the next 2 weeks.
      - kgwgk 7y ago
        I can see that happening for second-hand cars but not for new cars that have to be issued new plates. But maybe things work differently in other countries. “Europe” is not really one place.
        ryanlol 7y ago
        You can usually immediately get temporary transfer plates that’ll be valid for a month everywhere(?) in the EU.
        kgwgk 7y ago
        I got that kind of temporary plates once... at the DMV. It was quick, but they didn’t materialize magically when I needed them. Maybe it’s easier now, though.
MereInterest 7y ago
Not necessarily, but safer to do so. I recently bought a used car from a private party, and we went to a lobby of a bank to close the final transaction. I got a cashier's check from the bank, signed it over to the seller, and exchanged the keys/title for the car. This way, neither the buyer nor the seller needs to carry large amounts of cash with them. The cashier's check is not given unless the buyer's account has enough funds to cover it, so the seller doesn't need to worry about a bounced check.
bradknowles 7y ago
Even if the bank branch is closed, they usually have private ATMs available that are much more capable than your average US-style ATM. You can do just about anything at those ATMs that you could do inside the branch. At least, that's the way it was back in 2006, when my wife and I moved from Brussels, Belgium back to the US. I remember many long hours sat at one of those ATMs (yes, they had private seating for most of them), paying various bills electronically using the bank account number given to us by the company that sent us the bill.
jacquesm 7y ago
Direct account-to-account transfer is supported between all major EU banks. It takes a couple of seconds at most, and it's free.
- kgwgk 7y ago
  If you mean SEPA instant credit transfers I think they are available only in some countries and they are not free in my experience.
  - kjaftaedi 7y ago
    In my country bank to bank transfers are free and instant. It's extremely convenient to be able to pay anyone any amount at any time with nothing more than your phone.
    - scawf 7y ago
      Sounds like a good way to get mugged with violence.. "Transfer me all of your bank account, right now !!" (To an account opened using fake ids of course)
      - majewsky 7y ago
        People with fake IDs are not going to engage in mugging. If you plan out your crimes so much that you have fake IDs ready, it's way safer and more profitable to do some scamming or fraud scheme instead.
  - nemetroid 7y ago
    It depends on the country. Within the EU, SEPA transfers must be no more expensive than the equivalent domestic payment. At least in Sweden, this means that SEPA transfers are free. This rule is new though, it went into effect in December: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32019R0518 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE... > Charges levied by a payment service provider on a payment service user in respect of cross-border payments in euro shall be the same as the charges levied by that payment service provider for corresponding national payments of the same value in the national currency of the Member State in which the payment service provider of the payment service user is located.

Melting_Harps 7y ago

> In many countries in Europe you can't use cash for large sums. We generally use bank transfers to buy cars. Some, like Sweden and Italy, going to extremes to phase cash out of existence, the latter making 'large' cash transaction punishable by jail/fine. I lived in EU during the financial crisis, and when cash got scarce prompting places in Greece to issue their own local currency [1] to do basic transactions (kids in school were passing out due to a lack of food, hospitals were running out of medicine and basic supplies in general) many were confident you would see something like this: Germany hoarding cash while the PIIGS were left to their own devices. Its sad, the problems paper fiat currencies beget: be they the promises of utilitarianism or the illusions of prosperity its one I wish we can finally overcome soon. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/world/europe/in-greece-barter-networks-surge.html https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/world/europe/in-greece-ba...

kyuudou 7y ago
>I lived in EU during the financial crisis, and when cash got scarce prompting places in Greece to issue their own local currency [1] to do basic transactions (kids in school were passing out due to a lack of food, hospitals were running out of medicine and basic supplies in general) Didn't something similar recently happen when Modi was trying to ban cash in India? Kinda backfired. Cash (and gold) will probably never die there.

ur-whale 7y ago

>We generally use bank transfers to buy cars. It's actually the only possible way to buy a new car. If you don't believe me, go try and buy a car with a credit card in the EU, see what happens.

zodiac 7y ago
Is it possible to buy with cash?
- Daniel_sk 7y ago
  It's probably not possible in most of EU because there is a limit for cash transaction which is I think 15 000 Euro (not sure if EU wide, but definitely here in Slovakia), over that you need to do a bank-wire transfer. All new cars are paid this way - or you purchase it with a loan / lease and don't need to put down this amount of money at once. Most new car dealers don't even have a cash register and would not take such an amount of money from you in cash. This is due to prevent money-laundering.
- narag 7y ago
  Not sure about other countries, but in Spain you can't pay anything above three thousand euros (IIRC) in cash. People downvoting others in disbelief should try to find a source by themselves before.
  - martin8412 7y ago
    2500 EUR if you live in Spain https://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.internet/Inicio/_Segmentos_/Ciudadanos/Limitacion_de_pagos_en_efectivo/Limitacion_de_pagos_en_efectivo.shtml https://www.agenciatributaria.es/AEAT.internet/Inicio/_Segme...
- freeflight 7y ago
  Depends on the country and the amount of cash [0] [0] https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu-consommateurs/PDFs/PDF_EN/Limit_for_cash_payments_in_EU.pdf https://www.europe-consommateurs.eu/fileadmin/user_upload/eu...

leosarev 7y ago

Funny thing, in Russia everything is backwards. You basically could pay for newspaper with credit card, but car or real estate cost of credit card / bank transfer will be so high, so it's common to pay in cash.