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> On the other hand, Hardy denigrates much of the applied mathematics as either being "trivial", "ugly", or "dull", and contrasts it with "real mathematics", wh

> On the other hand, Hardy denigrates much of the applied mathematics as either being "trivial", "ugly", or "dull", and contrasts it with "real mathematics", which is how he ranks the higher, pure mathematics. Not sure if this surprising, since he was a vocal pure mathematician. But since I don't agree (and it sometimes looks like the pure mathematicians look down on the applied), I wonder whether there are some texts from famous applied mathematicians defending their branch.

contravariant 7y ago
History's greatest example of irony is that Hardy's field of interest ended up being one of the most widely cited examples of the practical applications of abstract mathematics.
- zen_of_prog 7y ago
  https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4130 https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4130
generationP 7y ago
Tom Körner's "The Pleasures of Counting" ( https://www.amazon.com/Pleasures-Counting-T-W-K%C3%B6rner/dp/0521568234 https://www.amazon.com/Pleasures-Counting-T-W-K%C3%B6rner/dp... ) is an amusingly written yet intellectually challenging introduction to applied maths for the general audience. (His website https://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~twk/ https://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~twk/ will give you an idea of the writing style.)
- LeanderK 7y ago
  but does it contain a philosophical argument like Hardy?
  - galangalalgol 7y ago
    Philosophical arguments are for pure math navel gazers. Applied folks are too busy actually doing things that make people's lives better. That rant does not actually represent my beliefs, it just seemed like what the ggp wanted so, tada!
    - LeanderK 7y ago
      Not sure what you're getting at. I think it's often fascinating to read texts about the instrinsic motivation of these different crafts, as an example "the beauty of programming" from linus torvalds: https://www.brynmawr.edu/cs/resources/beauty-of-programming https://www.brynmawr.edu/cs/resources/beauty-of-programming So I wonder, since this is more or less direct attack on the beauty of applied mathematics how they would respond. What makes applied math beautiful? I can certainly say what I find beautiful about CS and Machine Learning! It strikes me as obvious, but that's probably why I like it.
    - chongli 7y ago
      make people's lives better But arguably also making people’s lives worse. Applied mathematicians and physicists have contributed to the development of weapons of war since the time of Archimedes. As a committed and outspoken pacifist, Hardy wanted no part in warfare. This informed a good part of his philosophy, along with aesthetics. I would hardly call that navel gazing.
  - generationP 7y ago
    It's not a philosophic pamphlet; Chapters 18 and 19 have some amount of philosophizing, but the rest of the book is heavily "show, don't tell". Which is the logical way to write a book on applied(!) maths.
bonoboTP 7y ago
Look at this interview with Cornelius Lanczos: https://youtu.be/avSHHi9QCjA?t=141 https://youtu.be/avSHHi9QCjA?t=141 At the linked timestamp he talks about how he doesn't like the split of "pure" and "applied" math and how it's a very new concept of the 20th century.
- LeanderK 7y ago
  wow, this is a fascinating, outstanding interview. I don't know why, but I was immediately hooked. I watched the whole thing.
  - bonoboTP 7y ago
    Agreed. I somehow can't imagine such an interview being made today. Where mathematicians would talk about the math in a serious but fascinated tone,talking about theoretical stuff without flashy animations or cutesy stories. The closest I can think of is Brady Haran's Numberphile or perhaps Lex Fridman's AI interviews (for example the Stroustup interview did go into technicalities). But these are still much more palatable and worried about losing the general viewership.

contravariant 7y ago

History's greatest example of irony is that Hardy's field of interest ended up being one of the most widely cited examples of the practical applications of abstract mathematics.

zen_of_prog 7y ago
https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4130 https://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=4130

generationP 7y ago

Tom Körner's "The Pleasures of Counting" ( https://www.amazon.com/Pleasures-Counting-T-W-K%C3%B6rner/dp/0521568234 https://www.amazon.com/Pleasures-Counting-T-W-K%C3%B6rner/dp... ) is an amusingly written yet intellectually challenging introduction to applied maths for the general audience. (His website https://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~twk/ https://www.dpmms.cam.ac.uk/~twk/ will give you an idea of the writing style.)

LeanderK 7y ago
but does it contain a philosophical argument like Hardy?
- galangalalgol 7y ago
  Philosophical arguments are for pure math navel gazers. Applied folks are too busy actually doing things that make people's lives better. That rant does not actually represent my beliefs, it just seemed like what the ggp wanted so, tada!
  - LeanderK 7y ago
    Not sure what you're getting at. I think it's often fascinating to read texts about the instrinsic motivation of these different crafts, as an example "the beauty of programming" from linus torvalds: https://www.brynmawr.edu/cs/resources/beauty-of-programming https://www.brynmawr.edu/cs/resources/beauty-of-programming So I wonder, since this is more or less direct attack on the beauty of applied mathematics how they would respond. What makes applied math beautiful? I can certainly say what I find beautiful about CS and Machine Learning! It strikes me as obvious, but that's probably why I like it.
  - chongli 7y ago
    make people's lives better But arguably also making people’s lives worse. Applied mathematicians and physicists have contributed to the development of weapons of war since the time of Archimedes. As a committed and outspoken pacifist, Hardy wanted no part in warfare. This informed a good part of his philosophy, along with aesthetics. I would hardly call that navel gazing.
- generationP 7y ago
  It's not a philosophic pamphlet; Chapters 18 and 19 have some amount of philosophizing, but the rest of the book is heavily "show, don't tell". Which is the logical way to write a book on applied(!) maths.

bonoboTP 7y ago

Look at this interview with Cornelius Lanczos: https://youtu.be/avSHHi9QCjA?t=141 https://youtu.be/avSHHi9QCjA?t=141 At the linked timestamp he talks about how he doesn't like the split of "pure" and "applied" math and how it's a very new concept of the 20th century.

LeanderK 7y ago
wow, this is a fascinating, outstanding interview. I don't know why, but I was immediately hooked. I watched the whole thing.
- bonoboTP 7y ago
  Agreed. I somehow can't imagine such an interview being made today. Where mathematicians would talk about the math in a serious but fascinated tone,talking about theoretical stuff without flashy animations or cutesy stories. The closest I can think of is Brady Haran's Numberphile or perhaps Lex Fridman's AI interviews (for example the Stroustup interview did go into technicalities). But these are still much more palatable and worried about losing the general viewership.