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> There are large gas storage systems, which could store gas produced from surplus electricity. Only with power to gas conversion capacity. Which is exactly wh

by usrusr 7y ago

> There are large gas storage systems, which could store gas produced from surplus electricity. Only with power to gas conversion capacity. Which is exactly what this project is trying to ramp up to practicality. "You should not do X because you could do X instead" isn't a very compelling argument.

lispm 7y ago
There are a bunch of power-to-gas projects. It's already being done. But there is very little experience on a large scale industrial level. We are just starting to work on that. https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/energiewende-peter-altmaier-will-globale-vorreiterrolle-bei-co2-freiem-wasserstoff-a-f05471a8-620e-4e05-970c-bf609aee0ae0 https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/energiewende-pete... > Bis 2030 sollen 20 Prozent des in Deutschland verbrauchten Wasserstoffes aus nachhaltigen Quellen wie Wind- und Solarkraft stammen. In 2030, 20% of the Hydrogen used in Germany should come from renewable sources...
- usrusr 7y ago
  What makes you think that this Spiegel link isn't talking about the exact same thing as the original article on rechargenews.com ? The latter just happens to be slightly more specific, singling out one project (likely the most concrete plan within a bigger initiative) wheras the Spiegel from two days earlier remains high level.
  - lispm 7y ago
    Correct, and it makes it again clear that this is currently not about storage, but about production of Hydrogen on a level which is mostly for consumption: vehicles, industry, heating, ... Since 20% share of renewable generated Hydrogen in 2030 is not much, scaled storage applications won't come into focus before the next decade. With 'storage' I'm talking about systems which can provide electricity for the grid (or consumers) when other renewable sources (wind, solar, ...) are currently not available in sufficient capacity.
    - usrusr 7y ago
      But methanization is part of the project and the storage of methane is both solved and deployed at scale (e.g. current German gas consumption could be served for months entirely from storage) and includes a massive x-to-electricity component (conventional gas power stations). The fact that is both storage and direct application only makes this project better than anything that's exclusively one or the other.
      - lispm 7y ago
        > methanization is part of the project That does not mean that there is currently any business model for it, for example because it is extremely expensive. Technology will be applied in scale, when there is a need for it, when it is affordable and when it is price competitive with other solutions.

by usrusr 7y ago

lispm 7y ago

There are a bunch of power-to-gas projects. It's already being done. But there is very little experience on a large scale industrial level. We are just starting to work on that. https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/energiewende-peter-altmaier-will-globale-vorreiterrolle-bei-co2-freiem-wasserstoff-a-f05471a8-620e-4e05-970c-bf609aee0ae0 https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/energiewende-pete... > Bis 2030 sollen 20 Prozent des in Deutschland verbrauchten Wasserstoffes aus nachhaltigen Quellen wie Wind- und Solarkraft stammen. In 2030, 20% of the Hydrogen used in Germany should come from renewable sources...

usrusr 7y ago
What makes you think that this Spiegel link isn't talking about the exact same thing as the original article on rechargenews.com ? The latter just happens to be slightly more specific, singling out one project (likely the most concrete plan within a bigger initiative) wheras the Spiegel from two days earlier remains high level.
- lispm 7y ago
  Correct, and it makes it again clear that this is currently not about storage, but about production of Hydrogen on a level which is mostly for consumption: vehicles, industry, heating, ... Since 20% share of renewable generated Hydrogen in 2030 is not much, scaled storage applications won't come into focus before the next decade. With 'storage' I'm talking about systems which can provide electricity for the grid (or consumers) when other renewable sources (wind, solar, ...) are currently not available in sufficient capacity.
  - usrusr 7y ago
    But methanization is part of the project and the storage of methane is both solved and deployed at scale (e.g. current German gas consumption could be served for months entirely from storage) and includes a massive x-to-electricity component (conventional gas power stations). The fact that is both storage and direct application only makes this project better than anything that's exclusively one or the other.
    - lispm 7y ago
      > methanization is part of the project That does not mean that there is currently any business model for it, for example because it is extremely expensive. Technology will be applied in scale, when there is a need for it, when it is affordable and when it is price competitive with other solutions.