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> I've been to Mumbai (and Delhi and a few other cities for that matter), and it is not for the safety. I live in India, and a lot of times it is for safety. I

> I've been to Mumbai (and Delhi and a few other cities for that matter), and it is not for the safety. I live in India, and a lot of times it is for safety. It's not always about people crossing the road. There are people walking on the road, shoulder-to-shoulder, four deep; there are scooters driving side by side as their drivers are having a conversation; there are car and scooter drivers talking on their cellphones edging along slowly, not stopping, not driving at the normal speed of traffic; there are people getting out of parking, backing into traffic, seemingly oblivious to you as they drive backwards into you while you're stopped or braking hard; there are cattle; there are dogs. 9 times out of 10 it is for safety. The Mumbai traffic light honking is about people honking at vehicles stopped in front of them to start driving when there's still a few seconds left on the red light. That's what the cops are trying to prevent.

Taniwha 7y ago
I have observed this .... it doesn't help that they count down the red to green change
- gowld 7y ago
  This is famously bad design that had been abandoned by everyone who can afford to update.
aww_dang 7y ago
It should be fair to start with the premise that this behavior creates a noise pollution problem. Otherwise the authorities would not be working to curb it. Everyone has an excuse, but two wrongs don't make a right. Drivers are not justified to create noise pollution because pedestrians or other drivers are indulging in inconsiderate behavior. I've lived on both sides of the world and frankly, it all comes down to how the individual regards himself and his social obligations. S. Asia is notorious for it's poor regard of public spaces. These are foundational cultural concepts that I don't see changing any time soon. Without a sense of personal responsibility the individual is powerless to act. The excuses you provide make the problem perpetually someone else's fault. The comment above spoke to the "entitlement of drivers" and this is the key to the whole issue. In the west, I've seen known gangsters stop their limo to personally remove a single piece of litter from the street. These are people who explicitly live outside of the bounds of the law. This person could have made his chauffeur or assistant retrieve the trash, yet he took such pride in his neighborhood that he had to do it personally. The contrast is obvious. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3968587/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3968587/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise
- kranner 7y ago
  No one is justifying impatient honking at traffic lights. My "excuses" as you've put them are situations that occur everyday on Indian roads where honking is an alternative to colliding with and running over people and animals. Noise pollution is the lesser evil. I would never indulge in causing that kind of situation to arise. That's the limit of what I can do. If faced with that situation my greater responsibility is to avoid a collision.
  - aww_dang 7y ago
    The alternative is to just slow down. If you are driving in a way that puts you at risk of hitting pedestrians, then you might want to look at that...
    - kranner 7y ago
      Obviously. Except when there are four two-wheelers tailgating you and braking would cause them to collide with you, or at least slow down all the traffic behind you so that everyone is now honking at you. It's probably hard to understand what I'm talking about if one has never experienced traffic like this themselves.
      - aww_dang 7y ago
        Like I said, I've lived on both sides of the world. It is probably hard to understand the cultural norms of living without rampant noise pollution if you haven't experienced it first hand.
        kranner 7y ago
        I'd love to move everyone in India to the other side of the world so they can pick up better cultural norms and such, but it seems an unrealistic proposition.

Taniwha 7y ago

I have observed this .... it doesn't help that they count down the red to green change

gowld 7y ago
This is famously bad design that had been abandoned by everyone who can afford to update.

aww_dang 7y ago

It should be fair to start with the premise that this behavior creates a noise pollution problem. Otherwise the authorities would not be working to curb it. Everyone has an excuse, but two wrongs don't make a right. Drivers are not justified to create noise pollution because pedestrians or other drivers are indulging in inconsiderate behavior. I've lived on both sides of the world and frankly, it all comes down to how the individual regards himself and his social obligations. S. Asia is notorious for it's poor regard of public spaces. These are foundational cultural concepts that I don't see changing any time soon. Without a sense of personal responsibility the individual is powerless to act. The excuses you provide make the problem perpetually someone else's fault. The comment above spoke to the "entitlement of drivers" and this is the key to the whole issue. In the west, I've seen known gangsters stop their limo to personally remove a single piece of litter from the street. These are people who explicitly live outside of the bounds of the law. This person could have made his chauffeur or assistant retrieve the trash, yet he took such pride in his neighborhood that he had to do it personally. The contrast is obvious. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3968587/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3968587/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_from_noise

kranner 7y ago
No one is justifying impatient honking at traffic lights. My "excuses" as you've put them are situations that occur everyday on Indian roads where honking is an alternative to colliding with and running over people and animals. Noise pollution is the lesser evil. I would never indulge in causing that kind of situation to arise. That's the limit of what I can do. If faced with that situation my greater responsibility is to avoid a collision.
- aww_dang 7y ago
  The alternative is to just slow down. If you are driving in a way that puts you at risk of hitting pedestrians, then you might want to look at that...
  - kranner 7y ago
    Obviously. Except when there are four two-wheelers tailgating you and braking would cause them to collide with you, or at least slow down all the traffic behind you so that everyone is now honking at you. It's probably hard to understand what I'm talking about if one has never experienced traffic like this themselves.
    - aww_dang 7y ago
      Like I said, I've lived on both sides of the world. It is probably hard to understand the cultural norms of living without rampant noise pollution if you haven't experienced it first hand.
      - kranner 7y ago
        I'd love to move everyone in India to the other side of the world so they can pick up better cultural norms and such, but it seems an unrealistic proposition.