6 ms·

I used to mock organic food and it's proponents, there's absolutely no nutritional benefits, but watching the sixth major extinction[0] on Earth unfold, caused

I used to mock organic food and it's proponents, there's absolutely no nutritional benefits, but watching the sixth major extinction[0] on Earth unfold, caused by us, it's hard to justify the widespread use of pesticides. We have a responsibility as the sentient beings here to protect all these things, they nourish us, they keep ecosystems and everything we need to survive in balance, small they may be, yet hold so much importance to the only known living planet in the galaxy. Life is really simple to nurture and hopefully we don't fuck it up. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

goda90 7y ago
Unfortunately organic labeled food has no guarantees of being better for the ecosystem: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html
- CameronNemo 7y ago
  This is off topic, but that website is designed terribly. I thank Mozilla for Firefox reader view in times like these.
  - nightfly 7y ago
    It's a ~username website, it looks exactly as you should expect it to.
    - CameronNemo 7y ago
      I should expect it to have a background image that interferes with my ability to read the text??
- epistasis 7y ago
  While this matches everything that I know, and I have no reason to doubt the information on that page, i would love to have a concise summary like that with more citations than a single paper from 1992.
- jacobush 7y ago
  I'm probably too cynical, but I also expect anything agricultural in the USA to be fake, including much of the "organic".
  - organsnyder 7y ago
    I trust the sourcing of my food as far as I can trust the vendor. We have a CSA (community supported agriculture) share with a local farm; despite them not having organic certification (pretty typical for CSAs in my experience—they'd rather build trust directly than via a third party), I know their produce to be much more sustainable than anything I could buy at a grocery store.
    - stevehawk 7y ago
      What makes it more sustainable?
      - organsnyder 7y ago
        IMHO, there are quite a few reasons small "organic" (certified or not) farms like our CSA are more sustainable: - Small scale focuses more on adapting crops to the land rather than adapting land to the crops (using fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, irrigation, etc.) - Crop rotation allows the land to produce more yield in the same space without chemical augmentation - Reduced emissions from transportation (the farm is about 10 miles away) - Fresher means better taste, so we eat more vegetables—and therefore less meat; and we also throw away less food (especially since our CSA uses a points system that allows us to choose veggies we're more likely to eat) - Reduced packaging use - No treatments required to preserve freshness (I know someone who has a severe intolerance for corn who has to be extremely careful with fresh vegetables, as they're often sprayed with a corn-based preservative) - More genetic variety, since freight-tolerance isn't nearly as important
pathseeker 7y ago
organic food won't help with extinction. if we switched to organic food we would have to plow down the remaining rain forest to feed the same number of people we do now
- toper-centage 7y ago
  That's simply not true.
  - mkl 7y ago
    Citation? While it may not be literally true (e.g. better irrigation of dry land may be just as productive?), it does seem to be in the right direction. The following article is based on a big meta-analysis of agricultural systems, and shows organic fruits and vegetables require significantly more land for the same yield: https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for-the-environment https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for...
- adrianN 7y ago
  Or we could reduce our meat consumption. Americans eat nearly 100kg of meat per person per year. Twice as much as the Chinese and still nearly 50% more than Europeans. Not to mention the average Indian who eats less than 4kg per year.
  - jakear 7y ago
    A push towards cured meats could help with this... my meat consumption last week was a 4oz pack of prosciutto. Way more tasty than a hunk of beef, and if I continue at that rate for a year I'd consume less than 6kg overall. And it's not like I'd get sick of prosciutto, there are all sorts of cured meats with interesting and unique flavor profiles to choose from.
    - gregoryl 7y ago
      I'm not gonna go searching, but quite certain cured meats are strongly linked to high cancer risks.
crikli 7y ago
Pesticides and herbicides are still used on organic foods. The difference is in the type of chemicals and when/how applied.
- ShorsHammer 7y ago
  Oh of course, though would say insects are far more prepared evolutionary-wise to deal with those products rather than Monsantos new monthly bioweapon straight out of the lab.

goda90 7y ago

Unfortunately organic labeled food has no guarantees of being better for the ecosystem: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html

CameronNemo 7y ago
This is off topic, but that website is designed terribly. I thank Mozilla for Firefox reader view in times like these.
- nightfly 7y ago
  It's a ~username website, it looks exactly as you should expect it to.
  - CameronNemo 7y ago
    I should expect it to have a background image that interferes with my ability to read the text??
epistasis 7y ago
While this matches everything that I know, and I have no reason to doubt the information on that page, i would love to have a concise summary like that with more citations than a single paper from 1992.
jacobush 7y ago
I'm probably too cynical, but I also expect anything agricultural in the USA to be fake, including much of the "organic".
- organsnyder 7y ago
  I trust the sourcing of my food as far as I can trust the vendor. We have a CSA (community supported agriculture) share with a local farm; despite them not having organic certification (pretty typical for CSAs in my experience—they'd rather build trust directly than via a third party), I know their produce to be much more sustainable than anything I could buy at a grocery store.
  - stevehawk 7y ago
    What makes it more sustainable?
    - organsnyder 7y ago
      IMHO, there are quite a few reasons small "organic" (certified or not) farms like our CSA are more sustainable: - Small scale focuses more on adapting crops to the land rather than adapting land to the crops (using fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, irrigation, etc.) - Crop rotation allows the land to produce more yield in the same space without chemical augmentation - Reduced emissions from transportation (the farm is about 10 miles away) - Fresher means better taste, so we eat more vegetables—and therefore less meat; and we also throw away less food (especially since our CSA uses a points system that allows us to choose veggies we're more likely to eat) - Reduced packaging use - No treatments required to preserve freshness (I know someone who has a severe intolerance for corn who has to be extremely careful with fresh vegetables, as they're often sprayed with a corn-based preservative) - More genetic variety, since freight-tolerance isn't nearly as important

pathseeker 7y ago

organic food won't help with extinction. if we switched to organic food we would have to plow down the remaining rain forest to feed the same number of people we do now

toper-centage 7y ago
That's simply not true.
- mkl 7y ago
  Citation? While it may not be literally true (e.g. better irrigation of dry land may be just as productive?), it does seem to be in the right direction. The following article is based on a big meta-analysis of agricultural systems, and shows organic fruits and vegetables require significantly more land for the same yield: https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for-the-environment https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for...
adrianN 7y ago
Or we could reduce our meat consumption. Americans eat nearly 100kg of meat per person per year. Twice as much as the Chinese and still nearly 50% more than Europeans. Not to mention the average Indian who eats less than 4kg per year.
- jakear 7y ago
  A push towards cured meats could help with this... my meat consumption last week was a 4oz pack of prosciutto. Way more tasty than a hunk of beef, and if I continue at that rate for a year I'd consume less than 6kg overall. And it's not like I'd get sick of prosciutto, there are all sorts of cured meats with interesting and unique flavor profiles to choose from.
  - gregoryl 7y ago
    I'm not gonna go searching, but quite certain cured meats are strongly linked to high cancer risks.

crikli 7y ago

Pesticides and herbicides are still used on organic foods. The difference is in the type of chemicals and when/how applied.

ShorsHammer 7y ago
Oh of course, though would say insects are far more prepared evolutionary-wise to deal with those products rather than Monsantos new monthly bioweapon straight out of the lab.