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"If everyone were perfectly courteous" = "If everyone lived by the same rules I live by" = "If everyone had the same notion of respect as I" It is difficult fo

by Xurinos 16y ago

"If everyone were perfectly courteous" = "If everyone lived by the same rules I live by" = "If everyone had the same notion of respect as I" It is difficult for people to agree, not only across cultures but within the same culture, with what is considered socially correct. Don't get me wrong: I am a large believer in courtesy. I share your vision that there is a lack of efficiency, that a few people can affect a large number of people. I see it all the time in traffic jams. On the sidewalk, I try to let people pass; I feel it is not only nice but also more efficient. However, getting angry over someone else not doing the same as I would do... That is just ego speaking. My way is not the only way or necessarily truly the best way, whatever my rationalization to suit my sense of self-righteousness.

burgerbrain 16y ago
Getting angry is just an emotion, so long as you handle yourself properly it doesn't really matter at all what you feel. The point I and others are trying to get across here is that the author of the story is voicing an unrealistic expectation; one that involved everyone playing by the same rules. My point is that outward 'aggression' is a normal part of dealing with a crowd, you can't villain-ize it without villain-izing the behaviour that makes it necessary. "If everyone were perfectly courteous, everyone would be standing perfectly still so as to not accidentally infringe on someone else's perceived personal space." By this I mean a world where everybody acts to minimize discomfort of others on the streets is a fantasy.
sophacles 16y ago
It seems like you are just trying to set up a situation where you can do what you want, and any effect it has on others is their fault for being self absorbed. Have you considered that the anger is not "they do it different" but "their actions are causing measurable negative consequence to me"? If the inefficiency caused by a door stopper causes me to miss a train connection, is it really all about my ego, or is it about that person screwing up my entire travel?
- Xurinos 16y ago
  Have you considered that the anger is not "their actions are causing measurable negative consequence to me" but "their actions are outside my control"? They did something that was not a part of our perfect little plan, and it simply irks us. We are so wrapped up in our own vision of how the world is, how the world will be for us, that we get angry when something happens counter to our vision. Yes, it is narcissism. And that is okay. It is okay to recognize a problem and adapt to it or to regain control. When it is not okay is when our angry reaction is also negative. To take your hypothetical situation: "If the inefficiency caused by a door stopper causes me to miss a train connection, is it really all about my ego, or is it about that person screwing up my entire travel?" I am sure all of us know somebody who is habitually late, and they have all kinds of excuses for it. So do people who are only sometimes late. This is just bad time management. The expectation that the world should operate perfectly in accordance with your plan is where I can claim it is about your ego. You are going to blame that one person for screwing up your travel? I like the pseudointellectual rationalization here, the excuse that it was the "inefficiency" of that other person that caused your problem. Maybe you should have gotten out of bed earlier. Maybe your affairs should have been in order before Go time. We like to place the blame on others rather than accept personal responsibility. That is just how important and infallible we are. Narcissism. Granted, that person's stopping behavior did have an impact, as did the speed of your walking, the amount of luggage you were carrying vs how much you worked out weeks before in order to more easily carry it, the stop lights on the way to the station, the time it took to get your ticket checked, and the line of other people boarding. Again, please do not feel insulted if you fall in the narcissism category; we all do to varying degrees. Very common. My intent was to point it out as a huge contributing factor in order to balance things out a bit. The OP was trying to put the "ragers" in the clear, but as the saying goes, "It takes two to start a fight."
  - sophacles 16y ago
    Wait it is my fault the route planners made the routes such that the path from one train to the next, goes through a choke-point, but did not consider the travel between trains could be delayed? Seriously, lots of places where you buy tickets have time limits on the transfer where you must make a specific train (or bus or whatever) or you forfeit your fare. You are going to tell me that if someone blocks the route and causes the transfer to be missed it is my fault for time mis-management? What instead should I have done? My travel is screwed up whether I arrive at the destination late or on-time. I may have lost money because of the situation. But it is all my fault? I may have had a part in it, you know going that route or whatever, but you are seriously playing blame the victim here. Inside my control or outside my control doesn't matter. I don't care when people do things that don't have negative consequence to me. I do care when I am responsible for doing something that has negative consequence to me. The common denominator here is not my control, just that i don't like the negative consequences. I understand now... please let me hear how you would use this to troll the rape victim that it is really just her self absorption that makes it a problem, she shouldn't have been so narcissistic about her genitalia. Or the family of someone murdered, and how they really just should have spent more time with him, instead of missing him now. It is unreasonable in both cases to thing that life would have gone perfectly and they may have lived their life without rape and murder. Your style of trolling is actually pretty good dark humor, now that I get it.

by Xurinos 16y ago

burgerbrain 16y ago

Getting angry is just an emotion, so long as you handle yourself properly it doesn't really matter at all what you feel. The point I and others are trying to get across here is that the author of the story is voicing an unrealistic expectation; one that involved everyone playing by the same rules. My point is that outward 'aggression' is a normal part of dealing with a crowd, you can't villain-ize it without villain-izing the behaviour that makes it necessary. "If everyone were perfectly courteous, everyone would be standing perfectly still so as to not accidentally infringe on someone else's perceived personal space." By this I mean a world where everybody acts to minimize discomfort of others on the streets is a fantasy.

sophacles 16y ago

It seems like you are just trying to set up a situation where you can do what you want, and any effect it has on others is their fault for being self absorbed. Have you considered that the anger is not "they do it different" but "their actions are causing measurable negative consequence to me"? If the inefficiency caused by a door stopper causes me to miss a train connection, is it really all about my ego, or is it about that person screwing up my entire travel?

Xurinos 16y ago
Have you considered that the anger is not "their actions are causing measurable negative consequence to me" but "their actions are outside my control"? They did something that was not a part of our perfect little plan, and it simply irks us. We are so wrapped up in our own vision of how the world is, how the world will be for us, that we get angry when something happens counter to our vision. Yes, it is narcissism. And that is okay. It is okay to recognize a problem and adapt to it or to regain control. When it is not okay is when our angry reaction is also negative. To take your hypothetical situation: "If the inefficiency caused by a door stopper causes me to miss a train connection, is it really all about my ego, or is it about that person screwing up my entire travel?" I am sure all of us know somebody who is habitually late, and they have all kinds of excuses for it. So do people who are only sometimes late. This is just bad time management. The expectation that the world should operate perfectly in accordance with your plan is where I can claim it is about your ego. You are going to blame that one person for screwing up your travel? I like the pseudointellectual rationalization here, the excuse that it was the "inefficiency" of that other person that caused your problem. Maybe you should have gotten out of bed earlier. Maybe your affairs should have been in order before Go time. We like to place the blame on others rather than accept personal responsibility. That is just how important and infallible we are. Narcissism. Granted, that person's stopping behavior did have an impact, as did the speed of your walking, the amount of luggage you were carrying vs how much you worked out weeks before in order to more easily carry it, the stop lights on the way to the station, the time it took to get your ticket checked, and the line of other people boarding. Again, please do not feel insulted if you fall in the narcissism category; we all do to varying degrees. Very common. My intent was to point it out as a huge contributing factor in order to balance things out a bit. The OP was trying to put the "ragers" in the clear, but as the saying goes, "It takes two to start a fight."
- sophacles 16y ago
  Wait it is my fault the route planners made the routes such that the path from one train to the next, goes through a choke-point, but did not consider the travel between trains could be delayed? Seriously, lots of places where you buy tickets have time limits on the transfer where you must make a specific train (or bus or whatever) or you forfeit your fare. You are going to tell me that if someone blocks the route and causes the transfer to be missed it is my fault for time mis-management? What instead should I have done? My travel is screwed up whether I arrive at the destination late or on-time. I may have lost money because of the situation. But it is all my fault? I may have had a part in it, you know going that route or whatever, but you are seriously playing blame the victim here. Inside my control or outside my control doesn't matter. I don't care when people do things that don't have negative consequence to me. I do care when I am responsible for doing something that has negative consequence to me. The common denominator here is not my control, just that i don't like the negative consequences. I understand now... please let me hear how you would use this to troll the rape victim that it is really just her self absorption that makes it a problem, she shouldn't have been so narcissistic about her genitalia. Or the family of someone murdered, and how they really just should have spent more time with him, instead of missing him now. It is unreasonable in both cases to thing that life would have gone perfectly and they may have lived their life without rape and murder. Your style of trolling is actually pretty good dark humor, now that I get it.