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This is my common complaint with Waze and most driving apps - they optimize for "least time," not "least anguish". I would almost always prefer to spend an extr

This is my common complaint with Waze and most driving apps - they optimize for "least time," not "least anguish". I would almost always prefer to spend an extra 5 minutes on my "normal" route (that I have on auto-pilot) instead of saving that 5 minutes by taking confusingly-named side-streets with lots of left turns onto other busy side-streets. I don't know if Apple Maps really gets this any better to be honest.

wutbrodo 7y ago
> with Waze and most driving apps - they optimize for "least time," not "least anguish" It's my impression that Google Maps does the latter; Waze is known for taking wild routes that are nominally faster. I'm not sure that I see a basis for complaint, as they're just offering a choice of different route objectives to optimize for (I know people who explicitly use Waze because they prefer its aggressive optimization to Maps). I suppose a toggle would be nice though.
- eigenvector 7y ago
  I travel to new cities often and usually rent a car from the airport. In most cities around the world, there is dedicated signage pointing out the access to the airport on every major approach it. I would say half the time Google wants to take me on a different route on some back road that is not meant to be the public access to the airport, which creates the extra mental overhead of having to ignore the gigantic "AIRPORT - EXIT HERE" signs all along the way. It even does this at SFO, presumably an airport that the very people who work on Google Maps use, where it always wants to exit the interstate one exit before the sign for the airport and take city streets instead. The worst experience I've had of this was in Denver, where it directed me onto a country road that circled the airport property and then ended at a temporary road closure. That is, Google's "5 seconds faster than the main, signed route" optimization wasn't even an actual route to the airport!
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    My favorite example of this was in NYC heading to Citi Field for a Mets game. Google Maps guides you past the exit, has you make a u-turn by getting off at the next exit (which is really unusual) and get you trapped on some ramp for an extra 20m.
    - InitialLastName 7y ago
      I'm really glad they aren't optimizing for people to drive to a major gathering point with 4+ good non-driving alternatives.
8ytecoder 7y ago
This is an understated problem. Google used to regularly take me through a route that involves a left turn in a major road and multiple crossings where cross traffic won’t stop. Literally two blocks from the suggested left turn is a left turn arrow signal which also avoids the dangerous crossings. It’s both dangerous and anxiety inducing and doesn’t save time either.
- viburnum 7y ago
  I wish it had a “no left turns” feature like they have for avoiding tolls.
  - andrepd 7y ago
    I wish cities had roundabouts instead of intersections, so that would not be a problem :)
    - avh02 7y ago
      They take space for anything at reasonable size I'd guess. Strangely enough though it's one of the few things I miss about the city I grew up in (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia) - lots of outdoor art and sculptures because they had lots of very large roundabouts (check Google images to see what I mean about the outdoor art).
      - RugnirViking 7y ago
        It absolubately can work, for a famous and oft-studied example see the city of Milton Keynes in the UK. Hundreds of roundabouts
      - viburnum 7y ago
        America cities have too many oversized streets and major intersections. Keep the streets small and you don't need as many intersections and you can invest more in the ones you have. This is what they do in the Netherlands.
dawnerd 7y ago
I would love it if these apps gave an option for easiest drive. Both Apple and Google tell me to take a left turn by my house onto a busy road when its actually quicker to go the other way and just loop around. In fact, if they just had an “avoid unprotected left turns” option that’d be fantastic.
- MarioMan 7y ago
  Waze has a feature called "Avoid difficult intersections" designed exactly for these situations. https://www.pcmag.com/news/waze-wants-to-help-you-avoid-difficult-intersections https://www.pcmag.com/news/waze-wants-to-help-you-avoid-diff...
capableweb 7y ago
Sorry for the minor comment but I noticed this part: "side-streets with lots of left turns onto other busy side-streets" Now I live in Europe, presumably you live in the US (sorry if that's wrong). Is there any particular difficulties with doing left turns compared to right turns where you live?
- plorkyeran 7y ago
  Left turns cross all four lanes of traffic involved in an intersection while right turns involve two, so if either street is busy you have to wait longer for a gap.
- ghufran_syed 7y ago
  Biggest difference I found moving from Europe was that you can make a right turn on a red traffic in many states in the US (but not in New york city apparently!). You have to treat it like a stop sign and yield to any traffic on the road you're joining. Ends making a journey of rights turns much fast than one with left turns, particularly in rush hour
- ryanianian 7y ago
  Yes, I'm in the US. Left turns have to cross oncoming traffic so you have to monitor both directions. This is especially stressful if {both roads are busy, there's weather/dark, you don't know the roads}.
- eigenvector 7y ago
  Roads can be very wide in the US, it is not uncommon for cities to have 6 or 8 lane roads at-grade (i.e. not expressways). So when turning left, one must turn across 3 or 4 lanes of oncoming traffic, instead of just one as when turning right.
gregmac 7y ago
I had a dedicated GPS a decade ago (I don't remember what brand) that had route options for Fastest, Shortest or Simplest that were easy to pick when you were first putting in the address. With few exceptions, simplest was usually the best option, especially if driving in an unfamiliar area. I think it basically tried to minimize turns or number of different roads. That would be a nice thing to see on Google Maps.
- HenryBemis 7y ago
  I will risk writing that you had Navigon or TomTom. At least in Europe those were the two main choices. I often use Navigon I keep in a (very old) iPhone, it has a fantastic feature that you can download the maps for countries. I like it better for long distance driving than Google Maps.
  - Gaelan 7y ago
    Garmin was also a major option in the US.
- aspz 7y ago
  Yes this is one thing that frustrates me about Google's navigation. Often it will take you off the main road through difficult and narrow side roads in order to save 2 mins. When I'm in an unfamiliar area I would rather save the stress and sit in traffic for those two minutes.
in3d 7y ago
It's not a new problem by any means - UPS trucks avoid left turns thanks to their navigation algorithm for more than a decade and they were trying to do it since the 1970s.
hammock 7y ago
The OG mapquest had three options for route optimization: quickest (time), shortest (distance), and scenic. Would be nice to have that again.
Spooky23 7y ago
The weird thing is that old school software like Microsoft Streets and Trips could do this pretty easily. These map apps make a conscious decision to deliver this user experience.
nwallin 7y ago
There's a regular drive I make. I can either hop on the freeway and it takes 1hr 4min, or I can take backroads and it takes 1hr 2min. The backroads also has a 25% or so chance of getting stopped by a train. Big massive transcontinental train connecting the biggest port complex in the US to the rest of the country. Takes about ten minutes. Last time I hit the train, as it was almost done, a train came the other way. Haven't taken that route since, despite the fact that it saves two minutes, sometimes more if there's traffic on the freeway. It's not a good value proposition.

wutbrodo 7y ago

> with Waze and most driving apps - they optimize for "least time," not "least anguish" It's my impression that Google Maps does the latter; Waze is known for taking wild routes that are nominally faster. I'm not sure that I see a basis for complaint, as they're just offering a choice of different route objectives to optimize for (I know people who explicitly use Waze because they prefer its aggressive optimization to Maps). I suppose a toggle would be nice though.

eigenvector 7y ago
I travel to new cities often and usually rent a car from the airport. In most cities around the world, there is dedicated signage pointing out the access to the airport on every major approach it. I would say half the time Google wants to take me on a different route on some back road that is not meant to be the public access to the airport, which creates the extra mental overhead of having to ignore the gigantic "AIRPORT - EXIT HERE" signs all along the way. It even does this at SFO, presumably an airport that the very people who work on Google Maps use, where it always wants to exit the interstate one exit before the sign for the airport and take city streets instead. The worst experience I've had of this was in Denver, where it directed me onto a country road that circled the airport property and then ended at a temporary road closure. That is, Google's "5 seconds faster than the main, signed route" optimization wasn't even an actual route to the airport!
- Spooky23 7y ago
  My favorite example of this was in NYC heading to Citi Field for a Mets game. Google Maps guides you past the exit, has you make a u-turn by getting off at the next exit (which is really unusual) and get you trapped on some ramp for an extra 20m.
  - InitialLastName 7y ago
    I'm really glad they aren't optimizing for people to drive to a major gathering point with 4+ good non-driving alternatives.

8ytecoder 7y ago

This is an understated problem. Google used to regularly take me through a route that involves a left turn in a major road and multiple crossings where cross traffic won’t stop. Literally two blocks from the suggested left turn is a left turn arrow signal which also avoids the dangerous crossings. It’s both dangerous and anxiety inducing and doesn’t save time either.

viburnum 7y ago
I wish it had a “no left turns” feature like they have for avoiding tolls.
- andrepd 7y ago
  I wish cities had roundabouts instead of intersections, so that would not be a problem :)
  - avh02 7y ago
    They take space for anything at reasonable size I'd guess. Strangely enough though it's one of the few things I miss about the city I grew up in (Jeddah, Saudi Arabia) - lots of outdoor art and sculptures because they had lots of very large roundabouts (check Google images to see what I mean about the outdoor art).
    - RugnirViking 7y ago
      It absolubately can work, for a famous and oft-studied example see the city of Milton Keynes in the UK. Hundreds of roundabouts
    - viburnum 7y ago
      America cities have too many oversized streets and major intersections. Keep the streets small and you don't need as many intersections and you can invest more in the ones you have. This is what they do in the Netherlands.

dawnerd 7y ago

I would love it if these apps gave an option for easiest drive. Both Apple and Google tell me to take a left turn by my house onto a busy road when its actually quicker to go the other way and just loop around. In fact, if they just had an “avoid unprotected left turns” option that’d be fantastic.

MarioMan 7y ago
Waze has a feature called "Avoid difficult intersections" designed exactly for these situations. https://www.pcmag.com/news/waze-wants-to-help-you-avoid-difficult-intersections https://www.pcmag.com/news/waze-wants-to-help-you-avoid-diff...

capableweb 7y ago

Sorry for the minor comment but I noticed this part: "side-streets with lots of left turns onto other busy side-streets" Now I live in Europe, presumably you live in the US (sorry if that's wrong). Is there any particular difficulties with doing left turns compared to right turns where you live?

plorkyeran 7y ago
Left turns cross all four lanes of traffic involved in an intersection while right turns involve two, so if either street is busy you have to wait longer for a gap.
ghufran_syed 7y ago
Biggest difference I found moving from Europe was that you can make a right turn on a red traffic in many states in the US (but not in New york city apparently!). You have to treat it like a stop sign and yield to any traffic on the road you're joining. Ends making a journey of rights turns much fast than one with left turns, particularly in rush hour
ryanianian 7y ago
Yes, I'm in the US. Left turns have to cross oncoming traffic so you have to monitor both directions. This is especially stressful if {both roads are busy, there's weather/dark, you don't know the roads}.
eigenvector 7y ago
Roads can be very wide in the US, it is not uncommon for cities to have 6 or 8 lane roads at-grade (i.e. not expressways). So when turning left, one must turn across 3 or 4 lanes of oncoming traffic, instead of just one as when turning right.

gregmac 7y ago

I had a dedicated GPS a decade ago (I don't remember what brand) that had route options for Fastest, Shortest or Simplest that were easy to pick when you were first putting in the address. With few exceptions, simplest was usually the best option, especially if driving in an unfamiliar area. I think it basically tried to minimize turns or number of different roads. That would be a nice thing to see on Google Maps.

HenryBemis 7y ago
I will risk writing that you had Navigon or TomTom. At least in Europe those were the two main choices. I often use Navigon I keep in a (very old) iPhone, it has a fantastic feature that you can download the maps for countries. I like it better for long distance driving than Google Maps.
- Gaelan 7y ago
  Garmin was also a major option in the US.
aspz 7y ago
Yes this is one thing that frustrates me about Google's navigation. Often it will take you off the main road through difficult and narrow side roads in order to save 2 mins. When I'm in an unfamiliar area I would rather save the stress and sit in traffic for those two minutes.

in3d 7y ago

It's not a new problem by any means - UPS trucks avoid left turns thanks to their navigation algorithm for more than a decade and they were trying to do it since the 1970s.

hammock 7y ago

The OG mapquest had three options for route optimization: quickest (time), shortest (distance), and scenic. Would be nice to have that again.

Spooky23 7y ago

The weird thing is that old school software like Microsoft Streets and Trips could do this pretty easily. These map apps make a conscious decision to deliver this user experience.

nwallin 7y ago

There's a regular drive I make. I can either hop on the freeway and it takes 1hr 4min, or I can take backroads and it takes 1hr 2min. The backroads also has a 25% or so chance of getting stopped by a train. Big massive transcontinental train connecting the biggest port complex in the US to the rest of the country. Takes about ten minutes. Last time I hit the train, as it was almost done, a train came the other way. Haven't taken that route since, despite the fact that it saves two minutes, sometimes more if there's traffic on the freeway. It's not a good value proposition.