5 ms·

Yet the best hours of my life have been idle, empty ones with no plans or agenda whatsoever. This whole idea of filling time with 'work' like it is a race is c

Yet the best hours of my life have been idle, empty ones with no plans or agenda whatsoever. This whole idea of filling time with 'work' like it is a race is completely antithetical to any idea of joy and fulfilment. It feels like 'wasting' time or downtime is essential to meaningful productivity. I did absolutely nothing and it was everything that I thought it could be. -- Peter Gibbons.

lordleft 7y ago
I would like to point out that Seneca was contemptuous of busyness for its own sake. The point is not to work, but to spend the finite time we are alive well. Maybe that includes periods of rest and repose. There is a tradition of meditation in Stoicism that invites us to take it easy and reflect on what we have, instead of hurrying to an arbitrary destination, given to us by our bosses, or society. From the same essay: Everyone hustles his life along, and is troubled by a longing for the future and weariness of the present. But the man who … organizes every day as though it were his last, neither longs for nor fears the next day… Nothing can be taken from this life, and you can only add to it as if giving to a man who is already full and satisfied food which he does not want but can hold. So you must not think a man has lived long because he has white hair and wrinkles: he has not lived long, just existed long. For suppose you should think that a man had had a long voyage who had been caught in a raging storm as he left harbor, and carried hither and thither and driven round and round in a circle by the rage of opposing winds? He did not have a long voyage, just a long tossing about.
- dorkwood 7y ago
  Which translation is that? It seems easier to read than my copy (Richard M. Gummere).
  - lordleft 7y ago
    I got the quote from this brainpickings article: https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/09/01/seneca-on-the-shortness-of-life/ https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/09/01/seneca-on-the-short... ...which uses: https://www.amazon.com/Shortness-Life-Penguin-Great-Ideas/dp/0143036327/?tag=braipick-20 https://www.amazon.com/Shortness-Life-Penguin-Great-Ideas/dp...
1996 7y ago
Coasting through life is still being part of the rat race - except you run at a lower pace. The core issue remains: if you don't have a plan for your life, society will make a plan for you. By making your own destiny, you may fill part of your time with work, but only as long as it serves your purpose. How good is your idea of wasting time to get meaningful productivity, if you are achieving someone else's goals instead of your own?
- blinkingled 7y ago
  > How good is your idea of wasting time to get meaningful productivity, if you are achieving someone else's goals instead of your own? That's a great point actually - the someone else's goals part. The whole intelligence in service of madness thing stems from the fact that sane and intelligent people sometimes do not have a goal of their own. I definitely did not mean to imply that idling is the only thing you do with your life - on the contrary I was trying to say idling is a great way of knowing who you are and coming up with general goals for yourself that you can then fulfill in the rest of the time. The problem with busy life is you never really dream of your goals and are constantly looking for things to do - it makes it almost eventual that you'll be in service of others' goals. That's not always a bad thing but I find no fulfillment in doing just that.
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    The whole intelligence in service of madness thing stems from the fact that sane and intelligent people sometimes do not have a goal of their own. I have a suspicion that the majority only have a vague idea and they mostly end up where they are by happenstance.
- marnett 7y ago
  This is profound and concise. Particularly that society/someone/something will make a plan out of you if you are without one.
- wruza 7y ago
  >The core issue remains: if you don't have a plan for your life, society will make a plan for you. You only plan to choose various plans society has for you. There is no plan that is viable out of society’s general direction, if you participate in any constructive way. Seneca, Socrates and many others were just a tip of the iceberg, and they quickly go underwater, when that iceberg decided to flip or crack. It is okay to achieve others goals if you get paid enough and do not have to constantly fight (iow carry huge risks) through your life. Their perspective is useful, in a way Jocko Willink motivation videos are useful, but you don’t really go to a full-blown war after watching these, nor are you ready for it.
agumonkey 7y ago
I guess whatever you do, try to approach what pleases your mind to the fullest. Either coasting along looking at the sky or climbing a mountain. Slight anecdote, as a health improvement I started jogging in the woods last summer. My brain is still recovering from a lot of nasty sensations and I'm very sensitive to any form of happy emotions. Whenever I run, I'm free to pick my path, and this feels like a very raw form of happiness seeking. If a part of the forest appeals to me (because it's new, or the sun shines differently through it, or if it's more challenging) I do it and it appeases something in me.
ellius 7y ago
One thing not highlighted in this article is that Seneca considered "leisure" the highest virtue. He talks about Augustus, for example, and other prominent Romans who "won" the rat race, and says they basically wasted their lives. So I think you'd find Seneca's message agreeable. Just read the real thing and ignore this knockoff.
cortesoft 7y ago
There is a Brad Paisley song about this - Time Well Wasted. Like everything, the key is finding the right balance - between activity and rest, between production and consumption, between relationships and solitude. There is no easy answer to what the right ratios are, and they will vary by person and by the stage in life.
polishdude20 7y ago
I think you can still be idle and rest but the point is that you're mindful that you're doing it for a purpose and that time is important. Don't sit idle because you're forced to. Because you've got nothing better to do. Sit idle because you choose to. Because you believe it is important.

lordleft 7y ago

I would like to point out that Seneca was contemptuous of busyness for its own sake. The point is not to work, but to spend the finite time we are alive well. Maybe that includes periods of rest and repose. There is a tradition of meditation in Stoicism that invites us to take it easy and reflect on what we have, instead of hurrying to an arbitrary destination, given to us by our bosses, or society. From the same essay: Everyone hustles his life along, and is troubled by a longing for the future and weariness of the present. But the man who … organizes every day as though it were his last, neither longs for nor fears the next day… Nothing can be taken from this life, and you can only add to it as if giving to a man who is already full and satisfied food which he does not want but can hold. So you must not think a man has lived long because he has white hair and wrinkles: he has not lived long, just existed long. For suppose you should think that a man had had a long voyage who had been caught in a raging storm as he left harbor, and carried hither and thither and driven round and round in a circle by the rage of opposing winds? He did not have a long voyage, just a long tossing about.

dorkwood 7y ago
Which translation is that? It seems easier to read than my copy (Richard M. Gummere).
- lordleft 7y ago
  I got the quote from this brainpickings article: https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/09/01/seneca-on-the-shortness-of-life/ https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/09/01/seneca-on-the-short... ...which uses: https://www.amazon.com/Shortness-Life-Penguin-Great-Ideas/dp/0143036327/?tag=braipick-20 https://www.amazon.com/Shortness-Life-Penguin-Great-Ideas/dp...

1996 7y ago

Coasting through life is still being part of the rat race - except you run at a lower pace. The core issue remains: if you don't have a plan for your life, society will make a plan for you. By making your own destiny, you may fill part of your time with work, but only as long as it serves your purpose. How good is your idea of wasting time to get meaningful productivity, if you are achieving someone else's goals instead of your own?

blinkingled 7y ago
> How good is your idea of wasting time to get meaningful productivity, if you are achieving someone else's goals instead of your own? That's a great point actually - the someone else's goals part. The whole intelligence in service of madness thing stems from the fact that sane and intelligent people sometimes do not have a goal of their own. I definitely did not mean to imply that idling is the only thing you do with your life - on the contrary I was trying to say idling is a great way of knowing who you are and coming up with general goals for yourself that you can then fulfill in the rest of the time. The problem with busy life is you never really dream of your goals and are constantly looking for things to do - it makes it almost eventual that you'll be in service of others' goals. That's not always a bad thing but I find no fulfillment in doing just that.
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  The whole intelligence in service of madness thing stems from the fact that sane and intelligent people sometimes do not have a goal of their own. I have a suspicion that the majority only have a vague idea and they mostly end up where they are by happenstance.
marnett 7y ago
This is profound and concise. Particularly that society/someone/something will make a plan out of you if you are without one.
wruza 7y ago
>The core issue remains: if you don't have a plan for your life, society will make a plan for you. You only plan to choose various plans society has for you. There is no plan that is viable out of society’s general direction, if you participate in any constructive way. Seneca, Socrates and many others were just a tip of the iceberg, and they quickly go underwater, when that iceberg decided to flip or crack. It is okay to achieve others goals if you get paid enough and do not have to constantly fight (iow carry huge risks) through your life. Their perspective is useful, in a way Jocko Willink motivation videos are useful, but you don’t really go to a full-blown war after watching these, nor are you ready for it.

agumonkey 7y ago

I guess whatever you do, try to approach what pleases your mind to the fullest. Either coasting along looking at the sky or climbing a mountain. Slight anecdote, as a health improvement I started jogging in the woods last summer. My brain is still recovering from a lot of nasty sensations and I'm very sensitive to any form of happy emotions. Whenever I run, I'm free to pick my path, and this feels like a very raw form of happiness seeking. If a part of the forest appeals to me (because it's new, or the sun shines differently through it, or if it's more challenging) I do it and it appeases something in me.

ellius 7y ago

One thing not highlighted in this article is that Seneca considered "leisure" the highest virtue. He talks about Augustus, for example, and other prominent Romans who "won" the rat race, and says they basically wasted their lives. So I think you'd find Seneca's message agreeable. Just read the real thing and ignore this knockoff.

cortesoft 7y ago

There is a Brad Paisley song about this - Time Well Wasted. Like everything, the key is finding the right balance - between activity and rest, between production and consumption, between relationships and solitude. There is no easy answer to what the right ratios are, and they will vary by person and by the stage in life.

polishdude20 7y ago

I think you can still be idle and rest but the point is that you're mindful that you're doing it for a purpose and that time is important. Don't sit idle because you're forced to. Because you've got nothing better to do. Sit idle because you choose to. Because you believe it is important.