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Just 29k Western Monarch butterflies are left in California
- ShorsHammer 7y agoI used to mock organic food and it's proponents, there's absolutely no nutritional benefits, but watching the sixth major extinction[0] on Earth unfold, caused by us, it's hard to justify the widespread use of pesticides. We have a responsibility as the sentient beings here to protect all these things, they nourish us, they keep ecosystems and everything we need to survive in balance, small they may be, yet hold so much importance to the only known living planet in the galaxy. Life is really simple to nurture and hopefully we don't fuck it up. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
- goda90 7y agoUnfortunately organic labeled food has no guarantees of being better for the ecosystem: https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html https://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html
- CameronNemo 7y agoThis is off topic, but that website is designed terribly. I thank Mozilla for Firefox reader view in times like these.
- nightfly 7y agoIt's a ~username website, it looks exactly as you should expect it to.
- CameronNemo 7y agoI should expect it to have a background image that interferes with my ability to read the text??
- epistasis 7y agoWhile this matches everything that I know, and I have no reason to doubt the information on that page, i would love to have a concise summary like that with more citations than a single paper from 1992.
- jacobush 7y agoI'm probably too cynical, but I also expect anything agricultural in the USA to be fake, including much of the "organic".
- organsnyder 7y agoI trust the sourcing of my food as far as I can trust the vendor. We have a CSA (community supported agriculture) share with a local farm; despite them not having organic certification (pretty typical for CSAs in my experience—they'd rather build trust directly than via a third party), I know their produce to be much more sustainable than anything I could buy at a grocery store.
- stevehawk 7y agoWhat makes it more sustainable?
- organsnyder 7y agoIMHO, there are quite a few reasons small "organic" (certified or not) farms like our CSA are more sustainable: - Small scale focuses more on adapting crops to the land rather than adapting land to the crops (using fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, irrigation, etc.) - Crop rotation allows the land to produce more yield in the same space without chemical augmentation - Reduced emissions from transportation (the farm is about 10 miles away) - Fresher means better taste, so we eat more vegetables—and therefore less meat; and we also throw away less food (especially since our CSA uses a points system that allows us to choose veggies we're more likely to eat) - Reduced packaging use - No treatments required to preserve freshness (I know someone who has a severe intolerance for corn who has to be extremely careful with fresh vegetables, as they're often sprayed with a corn-based preservative) - More genetic variety, since freight-tolerance isn't nearly as important
- pathseeker 7y agoorganic food won't help with extinction. if we switched to organic food we would have to plow down the remaining rain forest to feed the same number of people we do now
- toper-centage 7y agoThat's simply not true.
- mkl 7y agoCitation? While it may not be literally true (e.g. better irrigation of dry land may be just as productive?), it does seem to be in the right direction. The following article is based on a big meta-analysis of agricultural systems, and shows organic fruits and vegetables require significantly more land for the same yield: https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for-the-environment https://ourworldindata.org/is-organic-agriculture-better-for...
- adrianN 7y agoOr we could reduce our meat consumption. Americans eat nearly 100kg of meat per person per year. Twice as much as the Chinese and still nearly 50% more than Europeans. Not to mention the average Indian who eats less than 4kg per year.
- jakear 7y agoA push towards cured meats could help with this... my meat consumption last week was a 4oz pack of prosciutto. Way more tasty than a hunk of beef, and if I continue at that rate for a year I'd consume less than 6kg overall. And it's not like I'd get sick of prosciutto, there are all sorts of cured meats with interesting and unique flavor profiles to choose from.
- gregoryl 7y agoI'm not gonna go searching, but quite certain cured meats are strongly linked to high cancer risks.
- crikli 7y agoPesticides and herbicides are still used on organic foods. The difference is in the type of chemicals and when/how applied.
- ShorsHammer 7y agoOh of course, though would say insects are far more prepared evolutionary-wise to deal with those products rather than Monsantos new monthly bioweapon straight out of the lab.
- samcheng 7y agoIf you can, visit the Monarch Grove at Natural Bridges State Beach in Santa Cruz. Even though the numbers are down significantly, it is still visibly better than last year, and it's wonderful to stand amidst the Eucalyptus trees and see the butterflies swarming.
- bobsil1 7y agohttps://www.santacruz.org/blog/monarch-butterfly-magic-at-natural-bridges-state-beach/ https://www.santacruz.org/blog/monarch-butterfly-magic-at-na...
- ZacharyPitts 7y agoStanding in the midst of the butterflies at Natural Bridges some time in the early 90s is truly one of the wonders of my life. That day, there were easily more than 29k just in that one grove. By staying still long enough, I was covered in butterflies as they flittered about looking for a place to be.
- b5n 7y agoPismo looked healthier this year as well: https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=23795 https://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=23795
- bsder 7y agoWhile the "plant milkweed" is nice advice, I seem to remember that you have to plant a very specific species of milkweed. If you plant the wrong milkweed, you wind up killing the butterflies because they don't have enough energy for their migration.
- tonygrue 7y agoNot an expert, but some digging in on this indicates there is one species folks advice against (topical milkweed); otherwise the advice is a species native to your region. Some sites out there can help you pick a milkweed for your region. [https://blog.nwf.org/2015/02/twelve-native-milkweeds-for-monarchs/ https://blog.nwf.org/2015/02/twelve-native-milkweeds-for-mon...] and [https://monarchjointventure.org/images/uploads/documents/MilkweedFactSheetFINAL.pdf https://monarchjointventure.org/images/uploads/documents/Mil...]
- mehrdadn 7y agoMaybe worth noting: we've lost about half of Earth's wildlife in the past 40 years. [1] [1] https://www.worldwildlife.org/press-releases/wwf-report-reveals-staggering-extent-of-human-impact-on-planet https://www.worldwildlife.org/press-releases/wwf-report-reve...
- skratchpixels 7y agoFrom 1978 to 2018, the human population grew from 4.3 billion people to 7.6 billion people. That's over a 44% increase. The last 2 years alone, the human population increased by 1.2 billion.
- cknight 7y agoWe are currently at 7.8 billion. 1.2 billion people ago was 2006 or 2007.
- pintxo 7y agoMy maths tell me, an increase of (absolute) 3.3b from 4.3b to 7.6b is a (relative) change of 76%.
- thaumasiotes 7y agoMy math tells me that 76% is more than 44%. ;D
- rapnie 7y agoThis is one of the reasons I think we'll soon be talking about more than 'just' climate change, as the problem is much bigger still: we are committing planet-wide ecocide. Also maybe more focus on root causes will follow: that we are still promoting unbridled consumerism, and that inequality created an upper class that is trying to maintain the status quo. More focus on the latter is already happening.
- jacobush 7y agoDon't worry, the upper class will make the other classes consume much less of everything, if things get really bad.
- nathancahill 7y agoMeanwhile, 3 days ago: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/second-man-with-ties-to-mexicos-largest-monarch-butterfly-reserve-found-dead/2020/02/02/d655c3b4-460b-11ea-91ab-ce439aa5c7c1_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/second-man...
- kwonkicker 7y agoHoly f*ck.
- ptah 7y agowho would be motivated to kill both of them
- smt88 7y agoFrom the article: > "For years, illegal loggers tied to Mexico’s criminal underworld have clashed with conservationists who tried and eventually succeeded to ban logging from the butterfly sanctuaries in the state of Michoacan."
- friendly_fren 7y agoThat's not surprising at all. The cartels control Mexico. They stop at nothing for profit. They regularly murder presidental candidates they don't like so they don't get elected. The government is beyond corrupt.
- DaniFong 7y agomust the environmentalist arm themselves?
- nathancahill 7y agoIn Mexico? A lot of them do.
- gravelc 7y agoI'm part of a group that is developing RNAi-based pesticides [1]. One of the biggest advantages of such a technology (even relative to organic pesticides like Bt toxin) is the ability to target pests in a highly specific manner and avoid non-target organisms such as monarch butterflies and honey bees. There are likely many factors influencing insect population declines, but hopefully this and similar technologies as part of an integrated pest management strategy will offer a lot of benefit. [1] https://www.oecd.org/chemicalsafety/pesticides-biocides/conference-on-rnai-based-pesticides.htm https://www.oecd.org/chemicalsafety/pesticides-biocides/conf...
- ptah 7y agoremoving one species typically has a chain effect. EDIT: are you also investigating these chain effects?
- gravelc 7y agoStopping say thrips or aphids eating a horticultural crop somehow removes a species, which then usually has a chain effect? Can you show me some scientific literature where this is typically the case? Personally I don't research these 'chain effects' in depth as it's well outside my area of expertise. There are however many research groups and government agencies looking at ecological impacts of crop protection measures. Some of their presentations are in the link I provided. As scientists, we collaborate on these kinds of things.
- ptah 7y agowhen it comes to aphids, their predators like ladybugs would be affected. aphids are not a problem they are a symptom of a problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGlqnkE1Id0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGlqnkE1Id0
- foolzcrow 7y agoWho can count all the butterflies in California? Nobody. We can't even count all the butterflies in our neighborhood. Listen we just need you to give up your Rights because butterflies.
- spodek 7y ago> habitat loss, the use of pesticides, disease and the changing climate have all likely contributed to the decline of western monarchs We can dance around proximal causes all we want, but all environmental roads lead to overpopulation. Most people associate acting on population with China forcing abortions or tearing down homes, or racist eugenics policies or forced sterilizations. That's why when I talk about overpopulation, I talk about success cases like Thailand. Or how Mexico's soap operas helped lower that nation's birth rate. These cases brought prosperity, stability, and abundance. When they say we need more people to create more minds to solve bigger problems, I point out the geniuses have already been born and they said the population was too high. Besides, what was the world population that produced Beethoven and Shakespeare. Einstein was born to a population below 2 billion. Buddha and Jesus lived below 1 billion. The greatest technologies to solve our environmental problems aren't solar powered planes, thorium, and rocket ships. It's IUD, vasectomies, and other tools of family planning, along with educating everyone about it.
- mistrial9 7y agopopulation is an obsessive topic with lots of underlying psychological baggage, so much so as it is almost pointless to start listing. 100,000 caves dwellers versus 12,000 cave dwellers in some proportionally larger area (e.g. New Mexico) would have how much "impact" ? One Chernobyl for 120,000 people versus 1,000,000 people over a proportionate area (Ukraine) has how much effect? etc.. Large topics often bring out more the personal obsessions of the commentors.. therefore, take the time to specifically refute this comment point-of-view...
- LMYahooTFY 7y ago> That's why when I talk about overpopulation, I talk about success cases like Thailand. Or how Mexico's soap operas helped lower that nation's birth rate. These cases brought prosperity, stability, and abundance. Can you elaborate on these and/or provide links? At first thought it seems absurd that telenovelas could significantly impact the birthrate.
- spodek 7y agoMy introduction came from Alan Weisman's book Countdown. I did a couple podcast episodes on it: https://shows.acast.com/leadership-and-the-environment/episodes/250-why-talk-about-birthrate-and-population-so-much https://shows.acast.com/leadership-and-the-environment/episo... and https://shows.acast.com/leadership-and-the-environment/episodes/248-countdown-a-book-i-recommend-by-alan-weisman https://shows.acast.com/leadership-and-the-environment/episo.... Here's a New York Times article on Mexican soap operas and family planning https://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/05/world/soap-opera-in-mexico-dramatizing-birth-control.html https://www.nytimes.com/1982/01/05/world/soap-opera-in-mexic... This article covers soap operas around the world and family planning http://utminers.utep.edu/asinghal/Articles%20and%20Chapters/JA%20Singhal%20Rogers%201989%20Educating%20Through%20Television_R.pdf http://utminers.utep.edu/asinghal/Articles%20and%20Chapters/.... Search results with more https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mexico+family+planning+soap+opera&atb=v173-1&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mexico+family+planning+soap+opera&....
- sethammons 7y agoI recall, as a kid, having probably more than 30k monarchs for past my house every year. My kids were lucky to see a handful. :(
- williesleg 7y agoCalifornia sucks.
- stevespang 7y agoOne word: Neonicotinoids
- tcox 7y agoWell... you know... housing in California is expensive.
- rbobby 7y ago> population has declined by over 99 percent > This year's estimate [...] stands at about 29,000 monarchs, just above last year’s all-time low > Federal officials are considering listing monarch butterflies for protection under the Endangered Species Act Very disappointing that the feds are moving so slowly.
- gorgoiler 7y agoI remember first visiting Santa Cruz in the 90s and being disappointed to be early for what was still expected to be a magnificent season. Earlier this winter I was splitting an old log pile and disturbed three hibernating monarchs. I felt like a real jerk for waking them up. I hope they survived, and learned to be more careful disturbing the more obvious hibernation sites in the garden. I wish my connection with nature had come earlier in life.
- SSSDFRO 7y agoIf we are going to save these butterflies, we will need to expedite economic growth. In the US that means libertarian-esque policy. This is the solution most people don’t realize is the correct one.
- subject118 7y agoMarc Andreessen was recently quoted for pretty much saying that the answer to the environment is economic growth. How can we get current environmentalists to notice this reality?