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Now, but what about updates to the software for those appliances? Or do they only aquire the hardware and write their own software on top of it? How would you e

Now, but what about updates to the software for those appliances? Or do they only aquire the hardware and write their own software on top of it? How would you even find a bug that you don't know the existence of, that wasn't fixed or overlooked intentionally if you aren't the developer and can't be aware of all the inter-dependencies of the software stack? General trust is more important here than finding something or not finding something now. Dictatorships are just not trustworthy, and they wont change into non dictatorships with continued support. The "we didn't find backdoors bs" is a pseudo argument, in reality it's fear of economic retailiation against other industries that sell there.

Youden 7y ago
What does it matter if China is a dictatorship and America is nominally democratic? America has planted backdoors. We have evidence of this. American equipment cannot be trusted. America cannot be trusted. Perhaps China's government has planted a well-hidden backdoor or perhaps it will order one planted in the future. We don't know. What we do know is that America has definitely done it. It's a choice between a 0% chance of equipment without backdoors and some nonzero chance of equipment without backdoors. The nonzero chance is clearly better.
- deltron3030 7y ago
  It's about the goals and intentions of governments, not backdoors. Backdoors are a cheat for them, to reach their goals easier. What you should ask yourself is which model of society you actually prefer.
  - Youden 7y ago
    I think that's the part where we fundamentally disagree, or at least weigh things differently. I don't see buying Chinese networking equipment as a choice about society. I see it as a choice about which device best serves my needs. So long as China isn't morally bankrupt (which I do not believe to be the case), I give zero weight to their societal model. Even if I were weighing models of society against each other, America is only barely ahead of China in my mind. China may do some messed up things like their detention camps but America is no bastion of morality either. America fabricates evidence to invade its enemies, causes the deaths of hundreds of thousands in the process, holds people without trial or due process, tortures people, commits war crimes through assassination, arbitrarily pulls out of international deals, to the detriment of all, and refuses to respect international law to the point where it has declared it will invade one of its allies should one of its people be tried for war crimes. Maybe China is morally worse, I'm not sure if I believe that at the moment. Whatever the case, I see America as far more dangerous.

Youden 7y ago

What does it matter if China is a dictatorship and America is nominally democratic? America has planted backdoors. We have evidence of this. American equipment cannot be trusted. America cannot be trusted. Perhaps China's government has planted a well-hidden backdoor or perhaps it will order one planted in the future. We don't know. What we do know is that America has definitely done it. It's a choice between a 0% chance of equipment without backdoors and some nonzero chance of equipment without backdoors. The nonzero chance is clearly better.

deltron3030 7y ago
It's about the goals and intentions of governments, not backdoors. Backdoors are a cheat for them, to reach their goals easier. What you should ask yourself is which model of society you actually prefer.
- Youden 7y ago
  I think that's the part where we fundamentally disagree, or at least weigh things differently. I don't see buying Chinese networking equipment as a choice about society. I see it as a choice about which device best serves my needs. So long as China isn't morally bankrupt (which I do not believe to be the case), I give zero weight to their societal model. Even if I were weighing models of society against each other, America is only barely ahead of China in my mind. China may do some messed up things like their detention camps but America is no bastion of morality either. America fabricates evidence to invade its enemies, causes the deaths of hundreds of thousands in the process, holds people without trial or due process, tortures people, commits war crimes through assassination, arbitrarily pulls out of international deals, to the detriment of all, and refuses to respect international law to the point where it has declared it will invade one of its allies should one of its people be tried for war crimes. Maybe China is morally worse, I'm not sure if I believe that at the moment. Whatever the case, I see America as far more dangerous.