5 ms·

I read this and can't help but think that the real fools are the ones buying into the elitism narrative that the far-right has been peddling for years. It's a d

I read this and can't help but think that the real fools are the ones buying into the elitism narrative that the far-right has been peddling for years. It's a deliberate red herring exploiting the very human tendency to chafe at any perceived condescension. If people in the US primarily voted the issues (that matter and affect them) instead of on the basis of nonsense, Democrats would win by a landslide. Republican politicians are trading away relatively meaningless concessions (on things they likely don't genuinely care about like guns, LGBT rights, abortion, religion, etc) as a cover for tremendously detrimental policymaking that includes broad spectrum deregulation, huge transfers into the military-industrial complex, and massive cuts to social programs including education, healthcare, welfare, etc. We know that's the game plan. The real fools are the people who continue to fall for this shit. Edit: I should add that I don't necessarily believe everything about the Democratic Party's platform is valid. But they are unquestionably the better choice for the vast majority of voters.

jariel 7y ago
" and massive cuts to social programs including education, healthcare, " The US spends more per-capita on education than almost any other nation, and produces a higher % of college grads as well. [1] The US spends more per-capita on healthcare than any other nation - not just private but public as well! The US spends more per-capita on public healthcare alone than does Canada, wherein Canadians get full coverage. [2] These issues goes way beyond just 'spending'. [1] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/81-604-x/2016001/ch/chb-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/81-604-x/2016001/ch/chb-... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/283221/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/283221/per-capita-health...
- realtalk_sp 7y ago
  I should have clarified that my comments did not apply purely to the federal level. In fact, it's a fairly well-understood irony that more local levels of government have a higher impact on peoples' lives yet receive less attention from voters. Republicans are pummeling education systems in many of the states that they control. They've likely stolen the opportunity to be properly educated from multiple generations in the deep south. It's a tragedy. (http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/us-news-best-states-rankings-dont-smile-on-red-states.html http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/us-news-best-states-r...) I shouldn't have to point out that government healthcare spending is not higher in this country because we're doing a better job of providing it. The fact that you quoted the raw per capita spending number suggests you're unfamiliar with the dynamics of inflated healthcare costs in the US.
  - jariel 7y ago
    "The fact that you quoted the raw per capita spending number suggests you're unfamiliar with the dynamics of inflated healthcare costs in the US." I've lived and had healthcare services in two states, and lived and had health services in several nations abroad. I'm familiar with the problems.
shard972 7y ago
> If people in the US primarily voted the issues (that matter and affect them) instead of on the basis of nonsense, Democrats would win by a landslide. You can't help see the right as wrong because you can't even manage to represent their opinions in any kind of fair light.
- realtalk_sp 7y ago
  I believe the Republican Party is exploiting voters by fomenting outsized hysteria around certain social issues and that this is a smokescreen for a much more insidious agenda to benefit the very few at the expense of the many. I believe the people falling for it are, collectively, fools. The transgender bathroom debate. The Starbucks holiday coffee cups. There's a fantastic scene in 'Vice' depicting Republican strategists conceiving the 'Death Tax' line against a live test group. These are all variations on a theme of weaponizing emotions and biases to mislead. In my opinion, if you don't see the elements of carefully-crafted mass behavioral manipulation and you don't see WHY they're doing it, you're just not looking hard enough or you simply don't want to know. There are conservative positions that I believe have merit. I think that many social issues have remained unresolved for many decades because there are no perfect solutions to them. The political construct that is the Republican Party, however, is a destructive force tearing at the fabric of our society. That is my opinion.
Consultant32452 7y ago
I don't understand this predilection for believing that other people can't have genuinely held beliefs and values that are vastly different from our own. I hope we can one day come to understand that it's complete lunacy for Mobile Alabama to force Los Angeles to live by its cultural values or vice versa. But today is apparently not that day.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- realtalk_sp 7y ago
  I never argued that the people themselves don't genuinely hold different beliefs about gun rights, abortion, religion, LGBT, etc. I meant two things: 1. in terms of their effect on peoples' lives, these issues pale in comparison to certain other ones AND 2. Republican politicians are using these highly emotionally-charged social issues to induce people to vote against their own interests on dimensions of governance that would meaningfully impact their quality of life.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    What makes you think you have any insight into what is in their best interest, which of their interests should be most important to them, or how they should measure their quality of life?
    - realtalk_sp 7y ago
      If you don't have cost-effective access to good healthcare, you could literally die. And if you're poorly educated, you're much more likely to be less financially well off and that could itself lead to all kinds of suffering. But I get the sense that you're aiming for the presentation of being objectively insightful when really you're quite transparently arguing in bad faith for the sake of provocation, so I'll just leave it at that.
      - Consultant32452 7y ago
spangry 7y ago
> ...very human tendency to chafe at any perceived condescension. > If people in the US primarily voted the issues (that matter and affect them) instead of on the basis of nonsense, Democrats would win by a landslide. > The real fools are the people who continue to fall for this shit. Gosh, it's hard to see where people get the impression that they're being condescended to. It's a pity they're so easily manipulated into voting against their own best interests.
- realtalk_sp 7y ago
  The problem with your line of reasoning is that people voting Republican with their eyes wide open, fully understanding what the party is doing, would necessarily be even MORE foolish. Choosing to believe they're instead being manipulated is a more charitable interpretation of their behavior. Also, I'm obviously just one person expressing an opinion. But yes, any Republican strategist worth his salt (and you seem like someone who might do a sparkling job of it) would squeeze this picked cherry for all it's worth. Ergo all liberals are condescending. Q.E.D.

jariel 7y ago

" and massive cuts to social programs including education, healthcare, " The US spends more per-capita on education than almost any other nation, and produces a higher % of college grads as well. [1] The US spends more per-capita on healthcare than any other nation - not just private but public as well! The US spends more per-capita on public healthcare alone than does Canada, wherein Canadians get full coverage. [2] These issues goes way beyond just 'spending'. [1] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/81-604-x/2016001/ch/chb-eng.htm https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/81-604-x/2016001/ch/chb-... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/283221/per-capita-health-expenditure-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/283221/per-capita-health...

realtalk_sp 7y ago
I should have clarified that my comments did not apply purely to the federal level. In fact, it's a fairly well-understood irony that more local levels of government have a higher impact on peoples' lives yet receive less attention from voters. Republicans are pummeling education systems in many of the states that they control. They've likely stolen the opportunity to be properly educated from multiple generations in the deep south. It's a tragedy. (http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/us-news-best-states-rankings-dont-smile-on-red-states.html http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/us-news-best-states-r...) I shouldn't have to point out that government healthcare spending is not higher in this country because we're doing a better job of providing it. The fact that you quoted the raw per capita spending number suggests you're unfamiliar with the dynamics of inflated healthcare costs in the US.
- jariel 7y ago
  "The fact that you quoted the raw per capita spending number suggests you're unfamiliar with the dynamics of inflated healthcare costs in the US." I've lived and had healthcare services in two states, and lived and had health services in several nations abroad. I'm familiar with the problems.

shard972 7y ago

> If people in the US primarily voted the issues (that matter and affect them) instead of on the basis of nonsense, Democrats would win by a landslide. You can't help see the right as wrong because you can't even manage to represent their opinions in any kind of fair light.

realtalk_sp 7y ago
I believe the Republican Party is exploiting voters by fomenting outsized hysteria around certain social issues and that this is a smokescreen for a much more insidious agenda to benefit the very few at the expense of the many. I believe the people falling for it are, collectively, fools. The transgender bathroom debate. The Starbucks holiday coffee cups. There's a fantastic scene in 'Vice' depicting Republican strategists conceiving the 'Death Tax' line against a live test group. These are all variations on a theme of weaponizing emotions and biases to mislead. In my opinion, if you don't see the elements of carefully-crafted mass behavioral manipulation and you don't see WHY they're doing it, you're just not looking hard enough or you simply don't want to know. There are conservative positions that I believe have merit. I think that many social issues have remained unresolved for many decades because there are no perfect solutions to them. The political construct that is the Republican Party, however, is a destructive force tearing at the fabric of our society. That is my opinion.

Consultant32452 7y ago

I don't understand this predilection for believing that other people can't have genuinely held beliefs and values that are vastly different from our own. I hope we can one day come to understand that it's complete lunacy for Mobile Alabama to force Los Angeles to live by its cultural values or vice versa. But today is apparently not that day.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
realtalk_sp 7y ago
I never argued that the people themselves don't genuinely hold different beliefs about gun rights, abortion, religion, LGBT, etc. I meant two things: 1. in terms of their effect on peoples' lives, these issues pale in comparison to certain other ones AND 2. Republican politicians are using these highly emotionally-charged social issues to induce people to vote against their own interests on dimensions of governance that would meaningfully impact their quality of life.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  What makes you think you have any insight into what is in their best interest, which of their interests should be most important to them, or how they should measure their quality of life?
  - realtalk_sp 7y ago
    If you don't have cost-effective access to good healthcare, you could literally die. And if you're poorly educated, you're much more likely to be less financially well off and that could itself lead to all kinds of suffering. But I get the sense that you're aiming for the presentation of being objectively insightful when really you're quite transparently arguing in bad faith for the sake of provocation, so I'll just leave it at that.
    - Consultant32452 7y ago

spangry 7y ago

> ...very human tendency to chafe at any perceived condescension. > If people in the US primarily voted the issues (that matter and affect them) instead of on the basis of nonsense, Democrats would win by a landslide. > The real fools are the people who continue to fall for this shit. Gosh, it's hard to see where people get the impression that they're being condescended to. It's a pity they're so easily manipulated into voting against their own best interests.

realtalk_sp 7y ago
The problem with your line of reasoning is that people voting Republican with their eyes wide open, fully understanding what the party is doing, would necessarily be even MORE foolish. Choosing to believe they're instead being manipulated is a more charitable interpretation of their behavior. Also, I'm obviously just one person expressing an opinion. But yes, any Republican strategist worth his salt (and you seem like someone who might do a sparkling job of it) would squeeze this picked cherry for all it's worth. Ergo all liberals are condescending. Q.E.D.