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> The second part of that statement is crucial. There is nothing better than a paid-off car. There is no monthly payment, and most of the depreciation has alrea

by arbuge 7y ago

> The second part of that statement is crucial. There is nothing better than a paid-off car. There is no monthly payment, and most of the depreciation has already occurred. You are driving for free. There is no such animal. As the car ages, repairs and maintenance costs inevitably mount. Then of course you have constant costs like insurance, gas/electricity, etc.

TheMerovingian 7y ago
You're right. Being smart is also knowing when to buy a replacement. Being smarter is knowing how to treat a car well so it can see it's 20th year of service. Unfortunately, certain countries, such as Canada, are very hostile to cars. The weather and road salt take a toll.
- ghaff 7y ago
  Most auto wear comes from miles but the big exception is winter in the snow belt. Things are a lot better than they used to be but driving a car regularly in winter in much of Canada and the northern US still probably limits life to a decade and change.
  - clarry 7y ago
    The average age of all the registered cars in Finland is 12 years currently. Think about that. It's not uncommon at all to run into 20+ yo cars in the neighborhood.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      I can’t speak to Finland just my experience in New England. I just got rid of a 20+ year old Honda del Sol and the dealer was amazed over about the past five years it hadn’t rusted out yet. (I kept it garaged in the winter for about the past 10 years or so. ) My general experience with cars I drove year round was a bit over 10 years before running into expensive rust related problems.
ghaff 7y ago
Gas and maintenance are mostly a function of mileage though I agree with the basic point. There comes some point where repairs and maintenance start to become an unpredictable black hole and it’s time to get out. Definitions of crappy vary as do things like whether to go with the relative predictability of a new car or the probable better value of a used one. But it’s certainly true that, for a lot of people, car costs that aren’t really required for functional transportation can be a big chunk of discretionary spend.
TrueGeek 7y ago
When my son turned 15 we told him he could get any car that he could afford to pay half of, was recommended by Consumer Reports, and was a stick shift (so he can’t text and drive). After working for a summer he got a Toyota Corolla for $3k with 200k miles. It’s been two years and the car has needed nothing but oil changes and, soon, tires. It gets incredible gas mileage and it was so cheap most people only need liability gas mileage. And this isn’t just a anecdotal. The Corolla has been a well rated reliable car by many sources for years. It’s just boring as hell.
- compiler-guy 7y ago
  The car also continues to depreciate. Not as dramatically as early on, but the depreciation does continue.
  - thedance 7y ago
    Important point. The net present value of a car does not approach zero asymptotically, it crosses zero and keeps going.
    - gvjddbnvdrbv 7y ago
      Why does the value become less than zero?
      - apta 7y ago
        Maintenance, repairs, gas, etc.
      - compiler-guy 7y ago
        The old saw about restoring classic cars is relevant: "What does it take to own a Sunbeam Alpine MkII worth a small fortune? Start with a large fortune." Eventually mechanical things need more repairs than they are worth functioning. That is a negative value car. People who can wrench themselves can make those repairs only for the cost of parts and if you think about it as a hobby, then you actually aren't paying for labor, but even then, you spend far more than the return the car could give you.
jppope 7y ago
that used to be more true than it is with current engineering standards... driving a car for 20 years with only oil changes, routine maintenance, and new tires can be common
ogre_codes 7y ago
> As the car ages, repairs and maintenance costs inevitably mount. I drive a 19 year old Toyota truck I bought used a couple years ago for $8500. If I'd bought new I would have paid nearly twice that much in payments over the 2 years I've owned it and be looking at another 5 years of payments ahead of me. Even if I have $8000 in repairs every year for the next 5 years I'm way ahead. But most likely this truck will last me another 10 years or more. This fear that "maintenance cost" ramp up ridiculously is a fiction dreamed up by car dealers.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  In fairness, people may have different opinions based on where they live. In places that have harsh winters and salt the roads, eventually something structural rusts through and/or significant amounts of wiring. On most cars it isn't practical to replace the frame, even if it's not unibody.

by arbuge 7y ago

TheMerovingian 7y ago

You're right. Being smart is also knowing when to buy a replacement. Being smarter is knowing how to treat a car well so it can see it's 20th year of service. Unfortunately, certain countries, such as Canada, are very hostile to cars. The weather and road salt take a toll.

ghaff 7y ago
Most auto wear comes from miles but the big exception is winter in the snow belt. Things are a lot better than they used to be but driving a car regularly in winter in much of Canada and the northern US still probably limits life to a decade and change.
- clarry 7y ago
  The average age of all the registered cars in Finland is 12 years currently. Think about that. It's not uncommon at all to run into 20+ yo cars in the neighborhood.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    I can’t speak to Finland just my experience in New England. I just got rid of a 20+ year old Honda del Sol and the dealer was amazed over about the past five years it hadn’t rusted out yet. (I kept it garaged in the winter for about the past 10 years or so. ) My general experience with cars I drove year round was a bit over 10 years before running into expensive rust related problems.

ghaff 7y ago

Gas and maintenance are mostly a function of mileage though I agree with the basic point. There comes some point where repairs and maintenance start to become an unpredictable black hole and it’s time to get out. Definitions of crappy vary as do things like whether to go with the relative predictability of a new car or the probable better value of a used one. But it’s certainly true that, for a lot of people, car costs that aren’t really required for functional transportation can be a big chunk of discretionary spend.

TrueGeek 7y ago

When my son turned 15 we told him he could get any car that he could afford to pay half of, was recommended by Consumer Reports, and was a stick shift (so he can’t text and drive). After working for a summer he got a Toyota Corolla for $3k with 200k miles. It’s been two years and the car has needed nothing but oil changes and, soon, tires. It gets incredible gas mileage and it was so cheap most people only need liability gas mileage. And this isn’t just a anecdotal. The Corolla has been a well rated reliable car by many sources for years. It’s just boring as hell.

compiler-guy 7y ago
The car also continues to depreciate. Not as dramatically as early on, but the depreciation does continue.
- thedance 7y ago
  Important point. The net present value of a car does not approach zero asymptotically, it crosses zero and keeps going.
  - gvjddbnvdrbv 7y ago
    Why does the value become less than zero?
    - apta 7y ago
      Maintenance, repairs, gas, etc.
    - compiler-guy 7y ago
      The old saw about restoring classic cars is relevant: "What does it take to own a Sunbeam Alpine MkII worth a small fortune? Start with a large fortune." Eventually mechanical things need more repairs than they are worth functioning. That is a negative value car. People who can wrench themselves can make those repairs only for the cost of parts and if you think about it as a hobby, then you actually aren't paying for labor, but even then, you spend far more than the return the car could give you.

jppope 7y ago

that used to be more true than it is with current engineering standards... driving a car for 20 years with only oil changes, routine maintenance, and new tires can be common

ogre_codes 7y ago

> As the car ages, repairs and maintenance costs inevitably mount. I drive a 19 year old Toyota truck I bought used a couple years ago for $8500. If I'd bought new I would have paid nearly twice that much in payments over the 2 years I've owned it and be looking at another 5 years of payments ahead of me. Even if I have $8000 in repairs every year for the next 5 years I'm way ahead. But most likely this truck will last me another 10 years or more. This fear that "maintenance cost" ramp up ridiculously is a fiction dreamed up by car dealers.

perl4ever 7y ago
In fairness, people may have different opinions based on where they live. In places that have harsh winters and salt the roads, eventually something structural rusts through and/or significant amounts of wiring. On most cars it isn't practical to replace the frame, even if it's not unibody.