3 ms·

I do work with people who don't think I should be allowed to exist. But they're required to be polite to me at work, and to use my pronouns, and as long as they

by thaeli 7y ago

I do work with people who don't think I should be allowed to exist. But they're required to be polite to me at work, and to use my pronouns, and as long as they do that no lines have been crossed.

wayneftw 7y ago
If my personal issues demanded that people use special pronouns around me in order to protect my own self identity, I think that I would eventually be more self-conscious about the fact that the majority of people in my office are now most likely making fun of me behind my back and calling me whatever they want when I'm not around... Don't people just avoid using pronouns altogether for you though if they feel so opposed to it? Seems like a pretty simple workaround. What do you do that people are consistently talking about you in the third person anyway?
- wolfgang42 7y ago
  I don’t even know where to start with this comment, so I’ll single out a bit of it: > What do you do that people are consistently talking about you in the third person anyway? Ummm… exist? Do their job? “Hey, I was talking to thaeli, and %s said that I should ask you about…”
- mplanchard 7y ago
  This comment feels remarkably uncharitable and unkind. Many of us are perfectly happy to refer to people by their chosen pronouns without making fun of them behind their backs. Hopefully the poster you were replying to works in an office where people are not as childish and inconsiderate as you assume they would be.
- maest 7y ago
  Why would people make fun of them behind their back?
  - wayneftw 7y ago
    Because this is generally a topic of ridicule? You don't have to look very far - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbT2sQ1GmgY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbT2sQ1GmgY
    - maest 7y ago
      I wouldn't use the word "generally" here. Pretty much none of the people I work with would consider this ridicule-worthy. People are aware it's not usual to have different pronouns so the reason they'd make this request must be important to them. Probably more important than it is for you to use regular pronouns. So if it's important, why ridicule them? (Of course, if you have evidence that they're doing it on a whim or for frivolous reasons, then sure, you can make fun of them _for being frivolous_.) EDIT: I've watched the video you've linked to. I think it's important to understand those are comedians doing an entertainment show. They're obviously not seriously intelectually engaging the issue. And Segura even says he's fine with using people's prefered pronouns.
      - wayneftw 7y ago
        Can you find an article or video about these recently manufactured pronouns that has a majority of comments that are supportive? Because I certainly can't. As I said to the other responder - even the gays are against it AFAICT since articles I've found on places like "pink news" have shown gay people mocking them as well. I find that what people say to your face at work is vastly different from what they'll say outside of work or when they really feel comfortable...anonymously online.
        maest 7y ago
        > an article or video about these recently manufactured pronouns that has a majority of comments that are supportive I think that's the wrong measure for this. Also, there's a chance we're talking past each other - in a separate reply you mentioned changing the pronoun based on the other person's mood. I think that's an extreme case, particularly because it's impractical (which is the source of a lot of these jokes). Separately, imagine one of your friends comes to you and says 'wayneftw, I have done some serious thinking and I disagree with how society views my gender. I know it's an uncommon request, but this is important to me: I would like you to use these pronouns when referring to me." Would you comply? Or would you mock them?

by thaeli 7y ago

I do work with people who don't think I should be allowed to exist. But they're required to be polite to me at work, and to use my pronouns, and as long as they do that no lines have been crossed.

wayneftw 7y ago

If my personal issues demanded that people use special pronouns around me in order to protect my own self identity, I think that I would eventually be more self-conscious about the fact that the majority of people in my office are now most likely making fun of me behind my back and calling me whatever they want when I'm not around... Don't people just avoid using pronouns altogether for you though if they feel so opposed to it? Seems like a pretty simple workaround. What do you do that people are consistently talking about you in the third person anyway?

wolfgang42 7y ago
I don’t even know where to start with this comment, so I’ll single out a bit of it: > What do you do that people are consistently talking about you in the third person anyway? Ummm… exist? Do their job? “Hey, I was talking to thaeli, and %s said that I should ask you about…”
mplanchard 7y ago
This comment feels remarkably uncharitable and unkind. Many of us are perfectly happy to refer to people by their chosen pronouns without making fun of them behind their backs. Hopefully the poster you were replying to works in an office where people are not as childish and inconsiderate as you assume they would be.
maest 7y ago
Why would people make fun of them behind their back?
- wayneftw 7y ago
  Because this is generally a topic of ridicule? You don't have to look very far - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbT2sQ1GmgY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbT2sQ1GmgY
  - maest 7y ago
    I wouldn't use the word "generally" here. Pretty much none of the people I work with would consider this ridicule-worthy. People are aware it's not usual to have different pronouns so the reason they'd make this request must be important to them. Probably more important than it is for you to use regular pronouns. So if it's important, why ridicule them? (Of course, if you have evidence that they're doing it on a whim or for frivolous reasons, then sure, you can make fun of them _for being frivolous_.) EDIT: I've watched the video you've linked to. I think it's important to understand those are comedians doing an entertainment show. They're obviously not seriously intelectually engaging the issue. And Segura even says he's fine with using people's prefered pronouns.
    - wayneftw 7y ago
      Can you find an article or video about these recently manufactured pronouns that has a majority of comments that are supportive? Because I certainly can't. As I said to the other responder - even the gays are against it AFAICT since articles I've found on places like "pink news" have shown gay people mocking them as well. I find that what people say to your face at work is vastly different from what they'll say outside of work or when they really feel comfortable...anonymously online.
      - maest 7y ago
        > an article or video about these recently manufactured pronouns that has a majority of comments that are supportive I think that's the wrong measure for this. Also, there's a chance we're talking past each other - in a separate reply you mentioned changing the pronoun based on the other person's mood. I think that's an extreme case, particularly because it's impractical (which is the source of a lot of these jokes). Separately, imagine one of your friends comes to you and says 'wayneftw, I have done some serious thinking and I disagree with how society views my gender. I know it's an uncommon request, but this is important to me: I would like you to use these pronouns when referring to me." Would you comply? Or would you mock them?