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It’s all the rage these days in “liberal” circles to act like due to recent dysfunction in the US, they’re just as bad as China/Russia/Iran/NK. It’s flatly ins

It’s all the rage these days in “liberal” circles to act like due to recent dysfunction in the US, they’re just as bad as China/Russia/Iran/NK. It’s flatly insane and is destructive to liberalism. These people clearly don’t understand how bad a bad place can be.

Barrin92 7y ago
If we're solely talking about political ideology then yes the US is without a doubt much closer aligned with Europe than China. On trade, however, it gets more complicated. With the increasing mercantilist attitudes in the US and attacks on say, German car manufacturers there is a real issue of Europeans being dependent on the US. If the US increasingly sabotages international institutions and throws its weight around for what appear to be short-term domestic gains it will become more and more unattractive to cooperate. China, while diverging much more on political or humanitarian issues, is a much more globally connected economy. The Asian-European trade already dwarfs the European-Atlantic trade, and that is only increasing, and China has very little incentive to change that deepening integration. I'm a sceptic that liberal values alone (which also seem to be in somewhat short supply today) outweigh the deeper trade relations between Europe and Asia.
- ethanbond 7y ago
  “I’m a sceptic that liberal values alone... outweigh the deeper trade relations between Europe and Asia.” Indeed^ and this is precisely the problem. The US is behaving shamefully right now because our leadership does not understand (or value) that fact. However, this is precisely the point that I am trying to make: It is only people who have enjoyed post-war, liberal peacetime who think that trade relations should be able to threaten this whatsoever. Chinese dominance does not yield the same life that US dominance yields (imperfect as it is).

Barrin92 7y ago

If we're solely talking about political ideology then yes the US is without a doubt much closer aligned with Europe than China. On trade, however, it gets more complicated. With the increasing mercantilist attitudes in the US and attacks on say, German car manufacturers there is a real issue of Europeans being dependent on the US. If the US increasingly sabotages international institutions and throws its weight around for what appear to be short-term domestic gains it will become more and more unattractive to cooperate. China, while diverging much more on political or humanitarian issues, is a much more globally connected economy. The Asian-European trade already dwarfs the European-Atlantic trade, and that is only increasing, and China has very little incentive to change that deepening integration. I'm a sceptic that liberal values alone (which also seem to be in somewhat short supply today) outweigh the deeper trade relations between Europe and Asia.

ethanbond 7y ago
“I’m a sceptic that liberal values alone... outweigh the deeper trade relations between Europe and Asia.” Indeed^ and this is precisely the problem. The US is behaving shamefully right now because our leadership does not understand (or value) that fact. However, this is precisely the point that I am trying to make: It is only people who have enjoyed post-war, liberal peacetime who think that trade relations should be able to threaten this whatsoever. Chinese dominance does not yield the same life that US dominance yields (imperfect as it is).