7 ms·

Show HN: I made a site that helps you find LGBT+ Travel Rankings and Gay Laws

186 points by 1hakr 7y ago

1hakr 7y ago
I was looking for a way to check a website where I can find Gay-friendly countries when one of my friends asked me as I have built the Visa List. Surprisingly I found very few blogs and they had very few countries and didn't tell me how safe every country is. So I decided to build a full functionality where you can find each and every country with their travel ranking with their civil rights, discrimination, and persecution against gay people. You can sort by most and least friendly and visualize it on a map. I would love to get feedback and improve the travel experience for LGBT+ community.
- herbstein 7y ago
  This is such an awesome project! Kudos
  - 1hakr 7y ago
    Thanks mate! Do share if you found this useful!!
- blondin 7y ago
  looks okay, but this site is very slow for me. takes seconds to scroll... i have the feeling it could be faster.
  - davedx 7y ago
    Yeah on my Macbook Pro scrolling is a little janky too, but it's not that noticeable. Probably that map at the top right, or the big ad on the right?
- notahacker 7y ago
  I like the design and intent, but I'm not sure mapping the scores to percentages works. I can't see how the UK's equal age of consent [since 2000] works out at '67%' for example. I'm also pretty sceptical of the underlying data anyway: I'm also perplexed by the idea that the UK has a significant negative religious influence, and I'm pretty sure Pride is banned in Saudi Arabia
  - DanBC 7y ago
    The Church of England just said that sex is for married hetero-sexual couples only. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51233003 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51233003
    - notahacker 7y ago
      It also said sorry for offending people very quickly afterwards, and more to the point has tiny and declining attendance and minimal impact on attitudes towards homosexual tourists. The idea that it's more hostile and influential on the subject of homosexuality than, say, the Catholic church in most Catholic majority countries doesn't really stack up.
      - DanBC 7y ago
        It's the official state religion and is represented in the house of lords. That's real actual power, albeit moderated by the rest of the HoL. And, while they apologised, they stuck by that announcement. We also have Catholic churches here, who've made similar pronouncements about relationships of gay people. We've had a long running demonstration outside primary schools by Muslim people complaining about age appropriate lessons about relationships. A transwoman was ostracized by her orthodox Jewish community to the point where she was unable to see her children. Despite winning the various court cases she's now given up trying to have contact with her children. Religious intolerance of LGBTQ relationships is widespread in the UK across most religions.
        notahacker 7y ago
        Nobody is saying that religious prejudice in the UK is nonexistent. What I am saying is the data source's conclusion that the UK has a high level of religious prejudice not found in the rest of Western Europe is palpably absurd. 'But I have to worry about the power of bishops in the House of Lords', said no tourist ever.
        DanBC 7y ago
JordanFarmer 7y ago
It will also be useful for those wanting to avoid LGBT+ people and acceptance. I realize this isn't the intent, but it will be divisive (cause division).
- herbstein 7y ago
  I really don't think there's any meaningful level of tourists not traveling somewhere because they're scared of too many LGBT+ community members. LGBT+ members need/want a site like this because they want to be safe while traveling and exploring the world. Bigoted fools don't have any real risk going somewhere with LGBT+ rights.
  - JordanFarmer 7y ago
    It's not about risk. It's about the type of place they want to spend time at or live in.
    - herbstein 7y ago
      No. But this site is created to help people that don't want to face discrimination being themselves. If one or two bigots don't go to Canada because they don't discriminate enough then I don't think anyone is going to miss a night's sleep.
    - cultus 7y ago
      Scaring away bigots is a good thing, not a bad thing. Your blatant homophobia has no place here or anywhere.
  - smoyer 7y ago
    I've only been to two places that I deemed (at least) kid-unfriendly ... in general, you never know who in the crowd of tourists might be part of the LGBT+ community. And while the federal government (in the US) provides accurate assessments of travel risk in general (you should use the STEP program for any travel abroad - https://step.state.gov/ https://step.state.gov/) it doesn't consider laws and the social climate risks for minority populations.
pokgak 7y ago
Where does the data come from?
- 1hakr 7y ago
  I collected the data from https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-...
davedx 7y ago
Great website, really nice UX. Small bug with some of the data -- spot the "undefined"s: "United States has a LGBT+ travel rank of 53 with a total gay travel score of 57. United States is part of Americas with main city at Washington, D.C.. Its Developed country with a population of 324M people. The main currency is undefined. The languages spoken are English. the United States of America is the formal name of undefined"
- 1hakr 7y ago
  Thanks, mate for spotting the bug. I will fix it!
- JshWright 7y ago
  I bet you could ask 100 people what the "main city" in the US was and none of them would say D.C. In general the U.S. seems varied enough that a single score isn't really meaningful... There's a pretty big difference between Seattle and rural Mississippi.
  - _-___________-_ 7y ago
    Maybe "main city" is a mistranslation of "capital"?
thepangolino 7y ago
The website deliberately breaks if no javascript.
mkl 7y ago
It looks like you have a typo: "civit rights" instead of "civil rights". Where do the numbers come from?
- 1hakr 7y ago
  Thanks! fixed it. I got the data from https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-... which is also present in wikipedia
ainar-g 7y ago
https://visalist.io/russia/gay-travel https://visalist.io/russia/gay-travel > The main currency is undefined. It's the Russian Rouble (RUB). > the Russian Federation is the formal name of undefined I'm not sure what this is supposed to say, but according to the Russian constitution, the names “Russia” and “the Russian Federation” are synonymous. At first I was surprised at how low the Russian Federation is on the list, but then I remembered that Chechnya exists. I guess a lot of these pages should have a note that YMMV, depending on the region and the city. Moscow shouldn't be that much different from Kiyiv or, say, Warsaw, while the North Caucasus regions are clearly closer to fundamentalist societies when it comes to LGBT+ rights.
- dubcanada 7y ago
  It seems to be based on laws mostly. So I am guessing due to Russia's rather terrible laws towards LGBT that's why it is so low. But everyone that I clicked on had a lot of undefined data.
  - 1hakr 7y ago
    fixed the bug
- 1hakr 7y ago
  Thanks for pointing out the bug. I just fixed it.
- TFortunato 7y ago
  Africa is a very large continent with countries that range from "have legalized same sex marriage" to "have death penalty for homosexuality", so saying a region is "clearly closer to Africa when it comes to LGBT+ rights" doesn't make a ton of sense..
  - ainar-g 7y ago
    You're right, that part was badly worded. I've changed it.
maxmalysh 7y ago
This map is terribly wrong for some parts of the ex-USSR and Asia. Coming out as a gay person in Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan or Azerbaijan is dangerous. Dangerous as in "there is a high chance you'll be beaten up and a mild chance of being kidnapped and killed". From the other side, Russia is not that bad. Not bad means "you can see gay people kissing on the streets without repercussions" (in the European part of the country). Syria? Oman? Just no comments.
- 1hakr 7y ago
  I believe Spartacus is a very reputable site for the gay community and this data is based on that https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-...
- lightgreen 7y ago
  > you can see gay people kissing on the streets without repercussions I never say gay people kissing (or even holding hands) even in Moscow. Maybe Russia is not as bad as Syria, but that statement is not true.
  - maxmalysh 7y ago
    YMMV, but check Google Maps to see how many gay bars are there in Moscow.
    - lightgreen 7y ago
      Yeah, but none of them is openly gay. For example, they can't practically display a rainbow flag near the entrance. These are "underground" bars and clubs.
      - KarlKemp 7y ago
        As underground as one can be on Google maps.
lawlorino 7y ago
Personally I'd like to see more information and transparency about how the ratings are calculated and where the data is coming from for me to put faith in the website and methodology, since that's the whole premise. For example what does X% discrimination or persecution actually mean? How is that quantified and why is it a percentage? Edit: another thing that doesn't give me confidence in the website are the frequent spelling errors, this is copy and pasted from the Netherlands description and there is a mistake in almost every sentence. > Netherlands is part of Europe with main city at Amsterdam. Its Developed country with a population of 17M people. The main currency is Euro. The languages spoken are Dutch. the Kingdom of the Netherlands is the formal name of Netherlands It is adviced to Exercise normal safety precautions
- 1hakr 7y ago
  I got the actual data from https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-... I just made it a percent to make it easy to compare and understand.
  - lode 7y ago
    You've got some bugs in the processing. For instance, at least Belgium & the Netherlands have equal age of consent.
    - 1hakr 7y ago
      Yes its present and has the same score for both the countries
  - lawlorino 7y ago
    I would argue it doesn't make it easier to understand though, plus I'm sure there is a mistake in your methodology. E.g. several countries you score as 67% in equal age of consent when they have laws specifying this. What is a 100% then? Moreover the guide you posted gives a max rating of 1 in this category, therefore that's why I think you made a mistake mapping their scores to percentages.
hardtoswallow 7y ago
As a gay man, you're safer and better off in Singapore than you would be in most parts of Europe and the top portion of the list. Yet Singapore is down at 92. Interpret this however you want, but the list flawed. Laws don't mean shit unless they're enforced and that goes both ways. "Bad" laws not enforced is better than good laws not enforced.
- 1hakr 7y ago
  Thanks for the feedback mate. I got this data from Spartacus website. Do you think it's not accurate? What about all the other countries? https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-...
  - netsharc 7y ago
    Fucking hell, your defense against all the criticism is that "Oh it's data from some 3rd party!", which is more or less saying "not my fault!". As another has said, this is less than useless, this is dangerous. And if it's the source that's wrong, then the source is also dangerous, but you're spreading dangerously wrong information. I hope no LGBT+ person actually depends on your site, because it might get them fucking killed. Besides, having the info be country-wide is not granular enough. A gay traveller would probably feel very safe in San Francisco but not feel very safe in some little town deep in Alabama.
    - mtnGoat 7y ago
      I'm a straight male and I feel uncomfortable in parts of TN, WV, AL, GA. I go there to see family and I don't like it. I feel like some of these folks don't just dislike LGBT, they dislike everyone. Downtown Seattle at 4am in cracktown is safer, then small town WV as an outsider. Edited for spelling
  - silencio 7y ago
    that guide has such a bad reputation for a lot of queer people. the rating isn't a bad rough guide, but it is outright dangerous as a resource to people who are especially trans and gender nonconforming, and queer people traveling with their kids. if you make it clear that that's your source that's fine, but.... it needs to be more clear.
sersi 7y ago
Not sure about the accuracy. France says locals hostile at 33% while Russia only has locals hostile at 17% and locals hostile at 0% in Singapore...Oh and locals hostile at 17% in Saudi Arabia!!! I'd say those numbers are totally wrong. This is the kind of project where hacking a quick solution together could lead to bad consequences so care should be taken with the numbers you give. I wonder if this is because of how you convert to percentages? I haven't looked yet at the data in spartacus. Also it is true that there's a difference between gay tourists who are less likely to be bothered in certain religious countries compared to residents.
- 1hakr 7y ago
  I got this data from Spartacus. All these numbers are based on data from them https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-...
  - JshWright 7y ago
    Do you mention they anywhere on your site?
    - keanzu 7y ago
      Yes, he does. It is on the RHS on the "LGBT+ Travel Rankings of the world" page (linked in OP). "This ranking is based on 14 different paramters like civil rights, discrimation and persecution by Spartacus LGBT+ Travel."
      - JshWright 7y ago
        Oh, yep I guess it is there. Seems like it could be a little more prominent, since this is basically just their dataset, with some filtering and ads (and a more confusing representation of the score).
        keanzu 7y ago
keanzu 7y ago
> Equal Age of Consent: 67% What does this mean? Spartacus has a 1 or 0 (true/false?) in this column.
- 1hakr 7y ago
  No actually, If there are positive developments it will be scored from 1,2 or 3 and if there are negative developments then it will -1,-2 or -3 and if there isn't anything going on regarding that then it will be 0
  - lawlorino 7y ago
    I don't think this is right for every category though, the only thing in the methodology I could find is this > The categories have different levels. If a category has three levels, a maximum of three points can be awarded. Keyword being "if". They don't specify which categories these are. Logically how could you score higher than a 1 in equal age of consent, that's a true or false question right?
    - keanzu 7y ago
      I checked 2017, 2018 and Canada held a consistent 1 score. I also found this in the 2017 document: "With regard to anti-discrimination laws up to 3 points can be awarded, making a distinction, for example, whether the principle of non-discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation in the constitution or only in a law for a specific area is shown." https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/gaytravelindex_2017.pdf https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/gaytravelindex_2017.pdf Also in 2019 Kenya managed a -1 score. Presumably they had equality and repealed it.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
sysbin 7y ago
I'm surprised the United States is not red if you're considering the "T" of LGBT+. Specially considering that some states still have the Panic Defense.
keanzu 7y ago
> This ranking is based on 14 different paramters *parameters
loraa 7y ago
This would be great for black people as black people don't need to announce to everyone they are black before they are discriminated against.
jlengrand 7y ago
civit rights -> civil rights?
excitedleigh 7y ago
Like so many others, these rankings seem to be far more focused on the LGB than the T. Also, the site tells me that I'll get murdered or sentenced to death if I visit a given country, and then immediately below that displays an ad for flights to that country's capital city. I really don't think your CTR is going to be high on that particular ad placement.
jaclaz 7y ago
> Italy >Italy has a LGBT+ travel rank of 40 with a total gay travel score of 60. Italy is part of Europe with main city at Rome. Its Developed country with a population of 61M people. The main currency is undefined. The languages spoken are Italian. the Republic of Italy is the formal name of undefined The currency is Euro, pretty much defined. Republic of Italy is the formal name of Italy. And the overall rating at first sight seem way off. Most probably it is brought down by the 0% in "adoption allowed" which I cannot see the relevance of in the case of a travel.
Benneb 7y ago
The data seems pretty out of date for Taiwan. LGBT couples can be married, and stepchildren can be adopted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Taiwan
- 1hakr 7y ago
  This is based on 2019 report. I will update it on my site. Thanks mate!
robjan 7y ago
It misidentifies Macau as a "developing" region, despite having one of the highest HDI in the world.
- 1hakr 7y ago
  Thanks for pointing it out, I have updated it.
JoeAltmaier 7y ago
The 'Green Book' is back? Useful if accurate, but a sad commentary as well.
laumars 7y ago
Interesting project Does this account for how regional variation within each country? Because even in the UK, peoples attitudes can vary wildly from one town and city to another.
- 1hakr 7y ago
  This is now based on country laws only. I haven't looked into how it's perceived in different regions in each country
emilfihlman 7y ago
Nothing happens when I press on the filter selection. Latest Chrome mobile on Android 10.
onyva 7y ago
Israel is probably one of the few countries other than the USA were LGBTQ+ people were attacked and killed in public or in private spaces. An ashkenazi religious Jew stabbed and killed a girl in a gay pride event in Jerusalem, and the government coalition is made up of some of the most externally homophobic (also Ashkenazi) MPs. Israel has an image of tolerance because of TLV, which was mostly a tourism driven policy or gimmick. The rest of the country is really not gay friendly at all and personal safety is something to consider if you travel outside of TLV. Mind you the murder of youth in a gay community club took place in TLV.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  A simple Google Search proves this comment completely wrong... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_acts_of_violence_against_LGBT_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_acts_of_violence_a...
  - onyva 7y ago
    The stubbing happened in public during a pride event in Jerusalem. Daylight. The shooting in the youth club was of a guy who burst in and gunned them down. Israel does not allow same sex marriage and having your right recognized l, if you got married outside is constantly challenged, as well as adoption by LGBTQ+ parents. Openly homophobic MPs are almost as common as islamophobic or xenophobic (asylum seekers) ones, and no one was fired for any of the vile public statements made. Israel’s image as a tolerant country is not reflected in its reality, as much as its claim to be the only democracy in the Middle East. It’s neither.
  - cultus 7y ago
    Ah yes, if it wasn't on that wikipedia page, it must not have happened. I know you aren't arguing in good faith, but here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yishai_Schlissel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yishai_Schlissel
philliphaydon 7y ago
> Singapore is part of Asia with main city at Singapore. Its Developing country with a population of 6M people. Singapore is a first world country.
- 1hakr 7y ago
  fixed it
  - ValentineC 7y ago
    Singapore claims Developing Country status in the WTO [1], so it's not entirely inaccurate. [1] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-supports-update-of-wto-rules-developing-country-status-11918958 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-sup...
anonnyj 7y ago
There's a bunch of variance of acceptance depending on where exactly you are in the LGBTP+ spectrum, no? For that reason alone it seems like you'd need more granularity on the details.
learnstats2 7y ago
Poland scores much higher than South Korea. Poland has areas which have declared themselves LGBT-free zones. South Korea is higher on the Human Development Index but is described as "developing". This is just nonsense, isn't it?
- alkyon 7y ago
  As gay person living in Warsaw I wouldn't move to South Korea. They have some serious legal problems like very limited or not existing anti-discrimination laws in employment, no right to serve openly in the military etc. Poland has openly gay politicians, party leaders and mayors - I don't think is true in South Korea. Also look at the comment below regarding Israel also featuring high in the ranking despite having serious problems outside Tel Aviv (a nice city BTW). Also so called LGBT-free zones are limited to south eastern Poland (ultra-catholic, conservative, something like bible belt in the US) - however stupid they are they are only declarative.
- nec4b 7y ago
  LGBT-free zones are places free of LGBT ideology and not LGBT people. Totally different meaning.
  - glennpratt 7y ago
    The former is obvious, no place is LGBT free by fiat. Just more repressive.
  - rewq4321 7y ago
    > Totally different meaning. If people aren't allowed to express who they are or their beliefs for fear of literally being bricked or kicked in the face [0][1] then you're banning LGBT people (and obviously "LGBT ideology" too). [0] https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/07/bigots-attacks-pride-march-throwing-bricks-burning-rainbow-flags/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/07/bigots-attacks-pride-mar... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-l67aCX0vA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-l67aCX0vA
    - 7y ago
Torches71 7y ago
The wrong side won.
Billy_Smith_92 7y ago
I wish we were speaking German.
onyva 7y ago
Also, according to International Monetary Fund, Russia is a developing, not developed, country.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
MacsHeadroom 7y ago
Love the idea. Terrible execution. Here's some constructive criticism: The site currently is as useless as listing the average elevation of countries to determine where mountains and valleys exist. Utterly useless. Texas would be one of the largest and most populous countries in the world if it was a country. Yet it is grouped together with states that couldn't be more different. Even WITHIN Texas LGBT acceptance in Austin TX and El Paso TX couldn't be more different. What would actually be useful? A heat-map style visual of the world; granular to the level of regions with 200k+ people. P.s. Make data source contribution a moderated community effort. Do not rely on terribly non-granular data sources constructed by people who don't actually live in the regions you're providing information about.
afroboy 7y ago
So many fake data on this, ok let's take Algeria as example of course it's not place for gay people but i'm questioning the data let's start by Death Sentence Algeria doesn't have death sentence at all and in this it tell you they will execute gay people well bullshit, and being gay is not illegal but not socially accepted big difference, pride is definitely banned but it tell you is not,Religious Influence is 67% well no way it's 100% etc.
temptemptemp111 7y ago
Super useful to be able to sort by "least friendly," thanks!

186 points by 1hakr 7y ago

I was looking for a way to check a website where I can find Gay-friendly countries when one of my friends asked me as I have built the Visa List. Surprisingly I found very few blogs and they had very few countries and didn't tell me how safe every country is. So I decided to build a full functionality where you can find each and every country with their travel ranking with their civil rights, discrimination, and persecution against gay people. You can sort by most and least friendly and visualize it on a map. I would love to get feedback and improve the travel experience for LGBT+ community.

herbstein 7y ago
This is such an awesome project! Kudos
- 1hakr 7y ago
  Thanks mate! Do share if you found this useful!!
blondin 7y ago
looks okay, but this site is very slow for me. takes seconds to scroll... i have the feeling it could be faster.
- davedx 7y ago
  Yeah on my Macbook Pro scrolling is a little janky too, but it's not that noticeable. Probably that map at the top right, or the big ad on the right?
notahacker 7y ago
I like the design and intent, but I'm not sure mapping the scores to percentages works. I can't see how the UK's equal age of consent [since 2000] works out at '67%' for example. I'm also pretty sceptical of the underlying data anyway: I'm also perplexed by the idea that the UK has a significant negative religious influence, and I'm pretty sure Pride is banned in Saudi Arabia
- DanBC 7y ago
  The Church of England just said that sex is for married hetero-sexual couples only. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51233003 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51233003
  - notahacker 7y ago
    It also said sorry for offending people very quickly afterwards, and more to the point has tiny and declining attendance and minimal impact on attitudes towards homosexual tourists. The idea that it's more hostile and influential on the subject of homosexuality than, say, the Catholic church in most Catholic majority countries doesn't really stack up.
    - DanBC 7y ago
      It's the official state religion and is represented in the house of lords. That's real actual power, albeit moderated by the rest of the HoL. And, while they apologised, they stuck by that announcement. We also have Catholic churches here, who've made similar pronouncements about relationships of gay people. We've had a long running demonstration outside primary schools by Muslim people complaining about age appropriate lessons about relationships. A transwoman was ostracized by her orthodox Jewish community to the point where she was unable to see her children. Despite winning the various court cases she's now given up trying to have contact with her children. Religious intolerance of LGBTQ relationships is widespread in the UK across most religions.
      - notahacker 7y ago
        Nobody is saying that religious prejudice in the UK is nonexistent. What I am saying is the data source's conclusion that the UK has a high level of religious prejudice not found in the rest of Western Europe is palpably absurd. 'But I have to worry about the power of bishops in the House of Lords', said no tourist ever.
        DanBC 7y ago

JordanFarmer 7y ago

It will also be useful for those wanting to avoid LGBT+ people and acceptance. I realize this isn't the intent, but it will be divisive (cause division).

herbstein 7y ago
I really don't think there's any meaningful level of tourists not traveling somewhere because they're scared of too many LGBT+ community members. LGBT+ members need/want a site like this because they want to be safe while traveling and exploring the world. Bigoted fools don't have any real risk going somewhere with LGBT+ rights.
- JordanFarmer 7y ago
  It's not about risk. It's about the type of place they want to spend time at or live in.
  - herbstein 7y ago
    No. But this site is created to help people that don't want to face discrimination being themselves. If one or two bigots don't go to Canada because they don't discriminate enough then I don't think anyone is going to miss a night's sleep.
  - cultus 7y ago
    Scaring away bigots is a good thing, not a bad thing. Your blatant homophobia has no place here or anywhere.
- smoyer 7y ago
  I've only been to two places that I deemed (at least) kid-unfriendly ... in general, you never know who in the crowd of tourists might be part of the LGBT+ community. And while the federal government (in the US) provides accurate assessments of travel risk in general (you should use the STEP program for any travel abroad - https://step.state.gov/ https://step.state.gov/) it doesn't consider laws and the social climate risks for minority populations.

pokgak 7y ago

Where does the data come from?

1hakr 7y ago
I collected the data from https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-...

davedx 7y ago

Great website, really nice UX. Small bug with some of the data -- spot the "undefined"s: "United States has a LGBT+ travel rank of 53 with a total gay travel score of 57. United States is part of Americas with main city at Washington, D.C.. Its Developed country with a population of 324M people. The main currency is undefined. The languages spoken are English. the United States of America is the formal name of undefined"

1hakr 7y ago
Thanks, mate for spotting the bug. I will fix it!
JshWright 7y ago
I bet you could ask 100 people what the "main city" in the US was and none of them would say D.C. In general the U.S. seems varied enough that a single score isn't really meaningful... There's a pretty big difference between Seattle and rural Mississippi.
- _-___________-_ 7y ago
  Maybe "main city" is a mistranslation of "capital"?

thepangolino 7y ago

The website deliberately breaks if no javascript.

mkl 7y ago

It looks like you have a typo: "civit rights" instead of "civil rights". Where do the numbers come from?

1hakr 7y ago
Thanks! fixed it. I got the data from https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-... which is also present in wikipedia

ainar-g 7y ago

https://visalist.io/russia/gay-travel https://visalist.io/russia/gay-travel > The main currency is undefined. It's the Russian Rouble (RUB). > the Russian Federation is the formal name of undefined I'm not sure what this is supposed to say, but according to the Russian constitution, the names “Russia” and “the Russian Federation” are synonymous. At first I was surprised at how low the Russian Federation is on the list, but then I remembered that Chechnya exists. I guess a lot of these pages should have a note that YMMV, depending on the region and the city. Moscow shouldn't be that much different from Kiyiv or, say, Warsaw, while the North Caucasus regions are clearly closer to fundamentalist societies when it comes to LGBT+ rights.

dubcanada 7y ago
It seems to be based on laws mostly. So I am guessing due to Russia's rather terrible laws towards LGBT that's why it is so low. But everyone that I clicked on had a lot of undefined data.
- 1hakr 7y ago
  fixed the bug
1hakr 7y ago
Thanks for pointing out the bug. I just fixed it.
TFortunato 7y ago
Africa is a very large continent with countries that range from "have legalized same sex marriage" to "have death penalty for homosexuality", so saying a region is "clearly closer to Africa when it comes to LGBT+ rights" doesn't make a ton of sense..
- ainar-g 7y ago
  You're right, that part was badly worded. I've changed it.

maxmalysh 7y ago

This map is terribly wrong for some parts of the ex-USSR and Asia. Coming out as a gay person in Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan or Azerbaijan is dangerous. Dangerous as in "there is a high chance you'll be beaten up and a mild chance of being kidnapped and killed". From the other side, Russia is not that bad. Not bad means "you can see gay people kissing on the streets without repercussions" (in the European part of the country). Syria? Oman? Just no comments.

1hakr 7y ago
I believe Spartacus is a very reputable site for the gay community and this data is based on that https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-...
lightgreen 7y ago
> you can see gay people kissing on the streets without repercussions I never say gay people kissing (or even holding hands) even in Moscow. Maybe Russia is not as bad as Syria, but that statement is not true.
- maxmalysh 7y ago
  YMMV, but check Google Maps to see how many gay bars are there in Moscow.
  - lightgreen 7y ago
    Yeah, but none of them is openly gay. For example, they can't practically display a rainbow flag near the entrance. These are "underground" bars and clubs.
    - KarlKemp 7y ago
      As underground as one can be on Google maps.

lawlorino 7y ago

Personally I'd like to see more information and transparency about how the ratings are calculated and where the data is coming from for me to put faith in the website and methodology, since that's the whole premise. For example what does X% discrimination or persecution actually mean? How is that quantified and why is it a percentage? Edit: another thing that doesn't give me confidence in the website are the frequent spelling errors, this is copy and pasted from the Netherlands description and there is a mistake in almost every sentence. > Netherlands is part of Europe with main city at Amsterdam. Its Developed country with a population of 17M people. The main currency is Euro. The languages spoken are Dutch. the Kingdom of the Netherlands is the formal name of Netherlands It is adviced to Exercise normal safety precautions

1hakr 7y ago
I got the actual data from https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-... I just made it a percent to make it easy to compare and understand.
- lode 7y ago
  You've got some bugs in the processing. For instance, at least Belgium & the Netherlands have equal age of consent.
  - 1hakr 7y ago
    Yes its present and has the same score for both the countries
- lawlorino 7y ago
  I would argue it doesn't make it easier to understand though, plus I'm sure there is a mistake in your methodology. E.g. several countries you score as 67% in equal age of consent when they have laws specifying this. What is a 100% then? Moreover the guide you posted gives a max rating of 1 in this category, therefore that's why I think you made a mistake mapping their scores to percentages.

hardtoswallow 7y ago

As a gay man, you're safer and better off in Singapore than you would be in most parts of Europe and the top portion of the list. Yet Singapore is down at 92. Interpret this however you want, but the list flawed. Laws don't mean shit unless they're enforced and that goes both ways. "Bad" laws not enforced is better than good laws not enforced.

1hakr 7y ago
Thanks for the feedback mate. I got this data from Spartacus website. Do you think it's not accurate? What about all the other countries? https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-...
- netsharc 7y ago
  Fucking hell, your defense against all the criticism is that "Oh it's data from some 3rd party!", which is more or less saying "not my fault!". As another has said, this is less than useless, this is dangerous. And if it's the source that's wrong, then the source is also dangerous, but you're spreading dangerously wrong information. I hope no LGBT+ person actually depends on your site, because it might get them fucking killed. Besides, having the info be country-wide is not granular enough. A gay traveller would probably feel very safe in San Francisco but not feel very safe in some little town deep in Alabama.
  - mtnGoat 7y ago
    I'm a straight male and I feel uncomfortable in parts of TN, WV, AL, GA. I go there to see family and I don't like it. I feel like some of these folks don't just dislike LGBT, they dislike everyone. Downtown Seattle at 4am in cracktown is safer, then small town WV as an outsider. Edited for spelling
- silencio 7y ago
  that guide has such a bad reputation for a lot of queer people. the rating isn't a bad rough guide, but it is outright dangerous as a resource to people who are especially trans and gender nonconforming, and queer people traveling with their kids. if you make it clear that that's your source that's fine, but.... it needs to be more clear.

sersi 7y ago

Not sure about the accuracy. France says locals hostile at 33% while Russia only has locals hostile at 17% and locals hostile at 0% in Singapore...Oh and locals hostile at 17% in Saudi Arabia!!! I'd say those numbers are totally wrong. This is the kind of project where hacking a quick solution together could lead to bad consequences so care should be taken with the numbers you give. I wonder if this is because of how you convert to percentages? I haven't looked yet at the data in spartacus. Also it is true that there's a difference between gay tourists who are less likely to be bothered in certain religious countries compared to residents.

1hakr 7y ago
I got this data from Spartacus. All these numbers are based on data from them https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-index/ https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/blog/spartacus-gay-travel-...
- JshWright 7y ago
  Do you mention they anywhere on your site?
  - keanzu 7y ago
    Yes, he does. It is on the RHS on the "LGBT+ Travel Rankings of the world" page (linked in OP). "This ranking is based on 14 different paramters like civil rights, discrimation and persecution by Spartacus LGBT+ Travel."
    - JshWright 7y ago
      Oh, yep I guess it is there. Seems like it could be a little more prominent, since this is basically just their dataset, with some filtering and ads (and a more confusing representation of the score).
      - keanzu 7y ago

keanzu 7y ago

> Equal Age of Consent: 67% What does this mean? Spartacus has a 1 or 0 (true/false?) in this column.

1hakr 7y ago
No actually, If there are positive developments it will be scored from 1,2 or 3 and if there are negative developments then it will -1,-2 or -3 and if there isn't anything going on regarding that then it will be 0
- lawlorino 7y ago
  I don't think this is right for every category though, the only thing in the methodology I could find is this > The categories have different levels. If a category has three levels, a maximum of three points can be awarded. Keyword being "if". They don't specify which categories these are. Logically how could you score higher than a 1 in equal age of consent, that's a true or false question right?
  - keanzu 7y ago
    I checked 2017, 2018 and Canada held a consistent 1 score. I also found this in the 2017 document: "With regard to anti-discrimination laws up to 3 points can be awarded, making a distinction, for example, whether the principle of non-discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation in the constitution or only in a law for a specific area is shown." https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/gaytravelindex_2017.pdf https://spartacus.gayguide.travel/gaytravelindex_2017.pdf Also in 2019 Kenya managed a -1 score. Presumably they had equality and repealed it.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]

sysbin 7y ago

I'm surprised the United States is not red if you're considering the "T" of LGBT+. Specially considering that some states still have the Panic Defense.

keanzu 7y ago

> This ranking is based on 14 different paramters *parameters

loraa 7y ago

This would be great for black people as black people don't need to announce to everyone they are black before they are discriminated against.

jlengrand 7y ago

civit rights -> civil rights?

excitedleigh 7y ago

Like so many others, these rankings seem to be far more focused on the LGB than the T. Also, the site tells me that I'll get murdered or sentenced to death if I visit a given country, and then immediately below that displays an ad for flights to that country's capital city. I really don't think your CTR is going to be high on that particular ad placement.

jaclaz 7y ago

> Italy >Italy has a LGBT+ travel rank of 40 with a total gay travel score of 60. Italy is part of Europe with main city at Rome. Its Developed country with a population of 61M people. The main currency is undefined. The languages spoken are Italian. the Republic of Italy is the formal name of undefined The currency is Euro, pretty much defined. Republic of Italy is the formal name of Italy. And the overall rating at first sight seem way off. Most probably it is brought down by the 0% in "adoption allowed" which I cannot see the relevance of in the case of a travel.

Benneb 7y ago

The data seems pretty out of date for Taiwan. LGBT couples can be married, and stepchildren can be adopted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Taiwan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Taiwan

1hakr 7y ago
This is based on 2019 report. I will update it on my site. Thanks mate!

robjan 7y ago

It misidentifies Macau as a "developing" region, despite having one of the highest HDI in the world.

1hakr 7y ago
Thanks for pointing it out, I have updated it.

JoeAltmaier 7y ago

The 'Green Book' is back? Useful if accurate, but a sad commentary as well.

laumars 7y ago

Interesting project Does this account for how regional variation within each country? Because even in the UK, peoples attitudes can vary wildly from one town and city to another.

1hakr 7y ago
This is now based on country laws only. I haven't looked into how it's perceived in different regions in each country

emilfihlman 7y ago

Nothing happens when I press on the filter selection. Latest Chrome mobile on Android 10.

onyva 7y ago

Israel is probably one of the few countries other than the USA were LGBTQ+ people were attacked and killed in public or in private spaces. An ashkenazi religious Jew stabbed and killed a girl in a gay pride event in Jerusalem, and the government coalition is made up of some of the most externally homophobic (also Ashkenazi) MPs. Israel has an image of tolerance because of TLV, which was mostly a tourism driven policy or gimmick. The rest of the country is really not gay friendly at all and personal safety is something to consider if you travel outside of TLV. Mind you the murder of youth in a gay community club took place in TLV.

koheripbal 7y ago
A simple Google Search proves this comment completely wrong... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_acts_of_violence_against_LGBT_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_acts_of_violence_a...
- onyva 7y ago
  The stubbing happened in public during a pride event in Jerusalem. Daylight. The shooting in the youth club was of a guy who burst in and gunned them down. Israel does not allow same sex marriage and having your right recognized l, if you got married outside is constantly challenged, as well as adoption by LGBTQ+ parents. Openly homophobic MPs are almost as common as islamophobic or xenophobic (asylum seekers) ones, and no one was fired for any of the vile public statements made. Israel’s image as a tolerant country is not reflected in its reality, as much as its claim to be the only democracy in the Middle East. It’s neither.
- cultus 7y ago
  Ah yes, if it wasn't on that wikipedia page, it must not have happened. I know you aren't arguing in good faith, but here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yishai_Schlissel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yishai_Schlissel

philliphaydon 7y ago

> Singapore is part of Asia with main city at Singapore. Its Developing country with a population of 6M people. Singapore is a first world country.

1hakr 7y ago
fixed it
- ValentineC 7y ago
  Singapore claims Developing Country status in the WTO [1], so it's not entirely inaccurate. [1] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-supports-update-of-wto-rules-developing-country-status-11918958 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/singapore-sup...

anonnyj 7y ago

There's a bunch of variance of acceptance depending on where exactly you are in the LGBTP+ spectrum, no? For that reason alone it seems like you'd need more granularity on the details.

learnstats2 7y ago

Poland scores much higher than South Korea. Poland has areas which have declared themselves LGBT-free zones. South Korea is higher on the Human Development Index but is described as "developing". This is just nonsense, isn't it?

alkyon 7y ago
As gay person living in Warsaw I wouldn't move to South Korea. They have some serious legal problems like very limited or not existing anti-discrimination laws in employment, no right to serve openly in the military etc. Poland has openly gay politicians, party leaders and mayors - I don't think is true in South Korea. Also look at the comment below regarding Israel also featuring high in the ranking despite having serious problems outside Tel Aviv (a nice city BTW). Also so called LGBT-free zones are limited to south eastern Poland (ultra-catholic, conservative, something like bible belt in the US) - however stupid they are they are only declarative.
nec4b 7y ago
LGBT-free zones are places free of LGBT ideology and not LGBT people. Totally different meaning.
- glennpratt 7y ago
  The former is obvious, no place is LGBT free by fiat. Just more repressive.
- rewq4321 7y ago
  > Totally different meaning. If people aren't allowed to express who they are or their beliefs for fear of literally being bricked or kicked in the face [0][1] then you're banning LGBT people (and obviously "LGBT ideology" too). [0] https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/07/bigots-attacks-pride-march-throwing-bricks-burning-rainbow-flags/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/07/bigots-attacks-pride-mar... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-l67aCX0vA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-l67aCX0vA
  - 7y ago

Torches71 7y ago

The wrong side won.

Billy_Smith_92 7y ago

I wish we were speaking German.

onyva 7y ago

Also, according to International Monetary Fund, Russia is a developing, not developed, country.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

MacsHeadroom 7y ago

Love the idea. Terrible execution. Here's some constructive criticism: The site currently is as useless as listing the average elevation of countries to determine where mountains and valleys exist. Utterly useless. Texas would be one of the largest and most populous countries in the world if it was a country. Yet it is grouped together with states that couldn't be more different. Even WITHIN Texas LGBT acceptance in Austin TX and El Paso TX couldn't be more different. What would actually be useful? A heat-map style visual of the world; granular to the level of regions with 200k+ people. P.s. Make data source contribution a moderated community effort. Do not rely on terribly non-granular data sources constructed by people who don't actually live in the regions you're providing information about.

afroboy 7y ago

So many fake data on this, ok let's take Algeria as example of course it's not place for gay people but i'm questioning the data let's start by Death Sentence Algeria doesn't have death sentence at all and in this it tell you they will execute gay people well bullshit, and being gay is not illegal but not socially accepted big difference, pride is definitely banned but it tell you is not,Religious Influence is 67% well no way it's 100% etc.

temptemptemp111 7y ago

Super useful to be able to sort by "least friendly," thanks!