10 ms·

It's not entirely for lack of trying on behalf of prosecutors. The courts have narrowed the definition of bribery. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx

It's not entirely for lack of trying on behalf of prosecutors. The courts have narrowed the definition of bribery. https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c6c23d55-f451-4a0b-ba31-40d77dabc962 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c6c23d55-f451...

p1esk 7y ago
So if I'm a Senator/Congressman and Comcast came to me promising $500k for my re-election campaign if only I could help them slow down Google Fiber rollout in some town, is it illegal for me to agree? I mean, this is a bribe, isn't it?
- dehrmann 7y ago
  I think corporate donors are held to the same limits as individuals: $2,800 per election to the candidate, $5,000 to their reelection committee. The rest (which still totals less than $500k) goes to state and federal party committees. Where the unlimited contributions come in (think Citizens United) are Super PACs, but those aren't technically affiliated with candidates, and they can't contribute to the candidates. The freedom of speech angle on this is that corporations or individuals can spend this money on political ads, but it has to be independent of the candidates. > is it illegal for me to agree? Yes, or it was illegal for them; this exceeds campaign contribution limits.
- paranoidrobot 7y ago
  If it's structured like that, sure, but it'll not be done that way. One approach is for a politician/candidate to hold a fundraising lunch/dinner/whatever, and charge for seats. Lobbyists and other folks who want to get access to the senator will buy those tickets and get their couple of minutes to talk about whatever issue is important to them. Any direction on bill will almost certainly be of a more indirect nature. It won't be: "Vote against municipal fiber rollouts, and $ISP will give your campaign $10k". It'll be more along the lines of: "We'd find it difficult to support the campaign of someone who wasn't seen to be acting in our best interests. We think that this municipal fiber rollout is bad for $ISP."
  - grecy 7y ago
    So you're saying it's 100%, without a doubt bribery, but we're just going to use some tricky language so it doesn't sound like that. America is corrupt to the very core, don't try to explain it away with newspeak or some kind of roundabout language. It's extremely common to buy the favour of politicians.
    - p1esk 7y ago
      America is corrupt to the very core Not long ago, I stumbled upon an old book in my uni library - Congress meeting notes from 1860s. It was fascinating to read about some dude who bribed congressmen to get his book published/distributed (the $50 book was about some tax rules, thousands of copies sold). One of his trial responses has stuck in my mind: "You gotta know someone to get things done". Nothing has changed. Oh, in that particular case, back then, a couple of congressmen lost their jobs, but no one went to jail, even though it was proven the bribery took place.
    - paranoidrobot 7y ago
      > So you're saying it's 100%, without a doubt bribery, but we're just going to use some tricky language so it doesn't sound like that. Possibly, but it'll depend on your POV and where you draw the line on what's bribery. Scenario 1: I represent a mega-corporation and I want legislation changed to make it easier for my factories to comply with pollution laws by changing the definition of pollution. Is it bribery to say to politicians "Our friends see the current standards on pollution are an impediment to the way we do business. Friends help each other out. Would you like to be our friend?" Scenario 2: I represent a small business, and there's legislation proposed that would make it illegal for me to trade on certain days. I've always given small donations to my local politicians because they've done things that helped my business, but now there's this threat that could ruin my business. Is it bribery if I tell them "If you support this legislation, we, and all the other local businesses owners like me will no longer be donating to your campaign, we're going to support your opposition instead".
      - grecy 7y ago
- jessaustin 7y ago
  It's rare that such large sums would go through the campaign-finance slot. Supposedly Biden received only $200k from the credit card industry for his awful bankruptcy "reforms". Of course larger bribes are paid, but they are less direct and less public. One method I've seen up close (I worked for Lucent back when they were in business) is to hire close relatives of favored politicians at vastly inflated salaries for "show-up" jobs for which those relatives had no observable skills. Those relatives would eventually transfer large portions of the millions they "earned" to the politician, but there was no hurry. In addition, there are sweetheart "investment" opportunities that somehow are only offered to politicians. We've all heard about the exorbitant "speaking fees". ISTR a mayor somewhere published a book and arranged for certain constituents to buy thousands of copies of it. Avaricious politicians have imagination.
  - IggleSniggle 7y ago
    Perhaps you're thinking of "Healthy Holly," a series of self-published children's books for which Mayor Pugh was paid over $800000, which came to light last year. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/baltimore-mayor-catherine-pugh-resigns-amid-book-scandal-health-problems/2019/05/02/fc91f2b0-67ad-11e9-8985-4cf30147bdca_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/baltimore-m...

p1esk 7y ago

So if I'm a Senator/Congressman and Comcast came to me promising $500k for my re-election campaign if only I could help them slow down Google Fiber rollout in some town, is it illegal for me to agree? I mean, this is a bribe, isn't it?

dehrmann 7y ago
I think corporate donors are held to the same limits as individuals: $2,800 per election to the candidate, $5,000 to their reelection committee. The rest (which still totals less than $500k) goes to state and federal party committees. Where the unlimited contributions come in (think Citizens United) are Super PACs, but those aren't technically affiliated with candidates, and they can't contribute to the candidates. The freedom of speech angle on this is that corporations or individuals can spend this money on political ads, but it has to be independent of the candidates. > is it illegal for me to agree? Yes, or it was illegal for them; this exceeds campaign contribution limits.
paranoidrobot 7y ago
If it's structured like that, sure, but it'll not be done that way. One approach is for a politician/candidate to hold a fundraising lunch/dinner/whatever, and charge for seats. Lobbyists and other folks who want to get access to the senator will buy those tickets and get their couple of minutes to talk about whatever issue is important to them. Any direction on bill will almost certainly be of a more indirect nature. It won't be: "Vote against municipal fiber rollouts, and $ISP will give your campaign $10k". It'll be more along the lines of: "We'd find it difficult to support the campaign of someone who wasn't seen to be acting in our best interests. We think that this municipal fiber rollout is bad for $ISP."
- grecy 7y ago
  So you're saying it's 100%, without a doubt bribery, but we're just going to use some tricky language so it doesn't sound like that. America is corrupt to the very core, don't try to explain it away with newspeak or some kind of roundabout language. It's extremely common to buy the favour of politicians.
  - p1esk 7y ago
    America is corrupt to the very core Not long ago, I stumbled upon an old book in my uni library - Congress meeting notes from 1860s. It was fascinating to read about some dude who bribed congressmen to get his book published/distributed (the $50 book was about some tax rules, thousands of copies sold). One of his trial responses has stuck in my mind: "You gotta know someone to get things done". Nothing has changed. Oh, in that particular case, back then, a couple of congressmen lost their jobs, but no one went to jail, even though it was proven the bribery took place.
  - paranoidrobot 7y ago
    > So you're saying it's 100%, without a doubt bribery, but we're just going to use some tricky language so it doesn't sound like that. Possibly, but it'll depend on your POV and where you draw the line on what's bribery. Scenario 1: I represent a mega-corporation and I want legislation changed to make it easier for my factories to comply with pollution laws by changing the definition of pollution. Is it bribery to say to politicians "Our friends see the current standards on pollution are an impediment to the way we do business. Friends help each other out. Would you like to be our friend?" Scenario 2: I represent a small business, and there's legislation proposed that would make it illegal for me to trade on certain days. I've always given small donations to my local politicians because they've done things that helped my business, but now there's this threat that could ruin my business. Is it bribery if I tell them "If you support this legislation, we, and all the other local businesses owners like me will no longer be donating to your campaign, we're going to support your opposition instead".
    - grecy 7y ago
jessaustin 7y ago
It's rare that such large sums would go through the campaign-finance slot. Supposedly Biden received only $200k from the credit card industry for his awful bankruptcy "reforms". Of course larger bribes are paid, but they are less direct and less public. One method I've seen up close (I worked for Lucent back when they were in business) is to hire close relatives of favored politicians at vastly inflated salaries for "show-up" jobs for which those relatives had no observable skills. Those relatives would eventually transfer large portions of the millions they "earned" to the politician, but there was no hurry. In addition, there are sweetheart "investment" opportunities that somehow are only offered to politicians. We've all heard about the exorbitant "speaking fees". ISTR a mayor somewhere published a book and arranged for certain constituents to buy thousands of copies of it. Avaricious politicians have imagination.
- IggleSniggle 7y ago
  Perhaps you're thinking of "Healthy Holly," a series of self-published children's books for which Mayor Pugh was paid over $800000, which came to light last year. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/baltimore-mayor-catherine-pugh-resigns-amid-book-scandal-health-problems/2019/05/02/fc91f2b0-67ad-11e9-8985-4cf30147bdca_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/baltimore-m...