5 ms·

History of LSD in Czechoslovakia

220 points by collapse 7y ago

pmoriarty 7y ago
There's a fantastic interview with Stanislav Grof, who supervised roughly 4500 LSD sessions starting in Czechoslovakia, here: [1] His intelligence, knowledge and keenness of mind is truly impressive, especially considering his advanced age. This interview is highly recommended to anyone with an interest in this subject. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mdYUmvTeig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mdYUmvTeig
- elevenoh 7y ago
  Psychedelic-induced plasticity (ability to re-route) seems to lend itself to folks retaining their cognitive function in spite of damage (e.g. in context age, stroke).
  - pgt 7y ago
    Interesting. I wonder at what age it would be most beneficial?
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    It didn't seem to be doing Alexander Shulgin any favors in old age, from what I saw of his later interviews anyways. Though he probably exposed himself to far more than just psychedelics.
    - pmoriarty 7y ago
      Shulgin did suffer a stroke and dementia in his old age. His wife, who probably did just as many (and many of the same) substances he did survived him and is doing fine. Something else to consider is that Shulgin said he usually only ever did maybe two or three sessions with any given substance, and then moved on to another one. It could be that one or more of them was beneficial, but he might not have taken enough of those particular ones to help. In contrast, Stanislav Grof had over 100 LSD sessions. I don't think enough is known about the relationship between psychedelics and neurodegenerative diseases to say how and which psychedelics affect them, but there are some interesting ongoing studies to see what effect microdosing LSD has on Alzheimer's disease, the Phase 1 trials of which have recently completed: https://newatlas.com/science/microdosing-lsd-alzheimers-phase1-trial-results-safety/ https://newatlas.com/science/microdosing-lsd-alzheimers-phas...
      - refurb 7y ago
        Sasha Shulgin tested a lot of compounds, so making any claim would be tough - some might have helped and some might have hurt. It can take only a minor chemical modification to turn a benign drug into a neurotoxin one.
    - pgt 7y ago
      Link to interview where Shulgin was not lucid?
      - newnewpdro 7y ago
        It's not like I have them bookmarked or something. Many years ago after reading PIHKAL I went a bit down this rabbit hole watching a bunch of what's on Youtube associated with Shulgin. He had given some presentation where he was clearly experiencing some mental problems. I'm sure you can find examples if you go digging, I don't have time to do that for you.
        pgt 7y ago
        Sorry, but your critical claims of Shulgin requires strong evidence. I'm willing to believe he struggled in his old age, but need to be convinced that it was due to psychedelic use and not post-stroke and normal dementia.
  - bencollier49 7y ago
    Reference? A lot of the after-effects of severe stroke are not unlike those induced by psychedelics (from personal experience of the latter days of my grandfather).
- bromuro 7y ago
  Thanks for naming Grof - I’ve read many books of him and had some holotropic breathworks. Really interesting stuff.
xixixao 7y ago
Here's a documentary including the original 1968 documentary of the experiment on army officers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNK3dQES6I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNK3dQES6I It's pretty hilarious (if you understand Czech). The officers are issuing non-sensical orders, can't stop giggling, can't put on masks, get into conflicts.
- b42 7y ago
  I like the last sentence at 9:18 in the video where he says: > During the experiment I experienced sensations of mostly unpleasant nature ... however if there's a need I'm willing to participate once again.
ifell 7y ago
"LSD made in CSSR" (2015,CZ) - documentary by Pavel Křemen and Czech Television, describes those times very interestingly https://www.ceskatelevize.cz/porady/10463665003-lsd-made-in-cssr/21456226510/ https://www.ceskatelevize.cz/porady/10463665003-lsd-made-in-...
- smcl 7y ago
  (edit: bad translation on my part)
  - TylerE 7y ago
    That doesn’t seem possible. I’m not aware of a single documented case of an actual LSD overdose (in the fatal sense)
    - vidarh 7y ago
      The most famous example of how hard it is to overdose on LSD was probably the case where 8 patients were admitted after snorting what they thought was cocaine, but which turned out to be LSD. The amounts in their blood suggests they each got hundreds of times a normal dose. All eight survived (though it's not clear if they would have without hospital treatment).
      - Neekerer 7y ago
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1129381/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1129381/ here's a research paper on them. They were in really rough shape for a hit but did survive. It's a fascinating read.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - DanBC 7y ago
      The only example I can think of is Tusko, the elephant who was experimented on. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/feb/26/research.science https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/feb/26/research.sci...
dr_dshiv 7y ago
Solid article! Beautiful ending. It's great having psychedelics sold over the counter, like truffles in Amsterdam, but with lsd I prefer a license or prescription scheme.
superhuzza 7y ago
When I first landed on this web page, I could read exactly 1 line of the article before closing all the popups: https://imgur.com/a/HcKD7cX https://imgur.com/a/HcKD7cX
- kzzzznot 7y ago
  Ironic that I couldn’t see your picture before accepting imgurs cookie notice
  - crystaldev 7y ago
    The internet sucks now.
  - asdff 7y ago
    Anytime a site tries to twist my arm and take their tracking cookie I just right click>block element and proceed without their stupid cookie.
finnley 7y ago
For those looking for the film 'Looking for Toxin X' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwlxYHTWyDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwlxYHTWyDQ
BttflyDrkSands 7y ago
The wikipedia article is about Expansionism not Explosionism but I can understand the word because the art form is rather bulging / expanding / spatial
- emergie 7y ago
  Expansionism is something else. You just read english translation of a polish article. Vladimir Bodnik called it explosionalismus. In polish explosionalismus is translated as eksplozjonalizm or eksplozjonizm. It was translated from that to 'explosionism'. http://www.artcasopis.cz/clanky/explosionalismus-vladimira-boudnika http://www.artcasopis.cz/clanky/explosionalismus-vladimira-b...
severak_cz 7y ago
This is similar case as metamphetamine (better known pervitin), which was re-discovered by some Czech junkies in toxicology literature. In late 70s, somebody actually developed how to synthethise it from pseudoefedrin found in common drugs against flu. So after that, Czech junkies began to ambush pharmacies and some even get employed in efedrin production plant in Roztoky u Prahy.

220 points by collapse 7y ago

There's a fantastic interview with Stanislav Grof, who supervised roughly 4500 LSD sessions starting in Czechoslovakia, here: [1] His intelligence, knowledge and keenness of mind is truly impressive, especially considering his advanced age. This interview is highly recommended to anyone with an interest in this subject. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mdYUmvTeig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mdYUmvTeig

elevenoh 7y ago
Psychedelic-induced plasticity (ability to re-route) seems to lend itself to folks retaining their cognitive function in spite of damage (e.g. in context age, stroke).
- pgt 7y ago
  Interesting. I wonder at what age it would be most beneficial?
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  It didn't seem to be doing Alexander Shulgin any favors in old age, from what I saw of his later interviews anyways. Though he probably exposed himself to far more than just psychedelics.
  - pmoriarty 7y ago
    Shulgin did suffer a stroke and dementia in his old age. His wife, who probably did just as many (and many of the same) substances he did survived him and is doing fine. Something else to consider is that Shulgin said he usually only ever did maybe two or three sessions with any given substance, and then moved on to another one. It could be that one or more of them was beneficial, but he might not have taken enough of those particular ones to help. In contrast, Stanislav Grof had over 100 LSD sessions. I don't think enough is known about the relationship between psychedelics and neurodegenerative diseases to say how and which psychedelics affect them, but there are some interesting ongoing studies to see what effect microdosing LSD has on Alzheimer's disease, the Phase 1 trials of which have recently completed: https://newatlas.com/science/microdosing-lsd-alzheimers-phase1-trial-results-safety/ https://newatlas.com/science/microdosing-lsd-alzheimers-phas...
    - refurb 7y ago
      Sasha Shulgin tested a lot of compounds, so making any claim would be tough - some might have helped and some might have hurt. It can take only a minor chemical modification to turn a benign drug into a neurotoxin one.
  - pgt 7y ago
    Link to interview where Shulgin was not lucid?
    - newnewpdro 7y ago
      It's not like I have them bookmarked or something. Many years ago after reading PIHKAL I went a bit down this rabbit hole watching a bunch of what's on Youtube associated with Shulgin. He had given some presentation where he was clearly experiencing some mental problems. I'm sure you can find examples if you go digging, I don't have time to do that for you.
      - pgt 7y ago
        Sorry, but your critical claims of Shulgin requires strong evidence. I'm willing to believe he struggled in his old age, but need to be convinced that it was due to psychedelic use and not post-stroke and normal dementia.
- bencollier49 7y ago
  Reference? A lot of the after-effects of severe stroke are not unlike those induced by psychedelics (from personal experience of the latter days of my grandfather).
bromuro 7y ago
Thanks for naming Grof - I’ve read many books of him and had some holotropic breathworks. Really interesting stuff.

xixixao 7y ago

Here's a documentary including the original 1968 documentary of the experiment on army officers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNK3dQES6I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNK3dQES6I It's pretty hilarious (if you understand Czech). The officers are issuing non-sensical orders, can't stop giggling, can't put on masks, get into conflicts.

b42 7y ago
I like the last sentence at 9:18 in the video where he says: > During the experiment I experienced sensations of mostly unpleasant nature ... however if there's a need I'm willing to participate once again.

ifell 7y ago

"LSD made in CSSR" (2015,CZ) - documentary by Pavel Křemen and Czech Television, describes those times very interestingly https://www.ceskatelevize.cz/porady/10463665003-lsd-made-in-cssr/21456226510/ https://www.ceskatelevize.cz/porady/10463665003-lsd-made-in-...

smcl 7y ago
(edit: bad translation on my part)
- TylerE 7y ago
  That doesn’t seem possible. I’m not aware of a single documented case of an actual LSD overdose (in the fatal sense)
  - vidarh 7y ago
    The most famous example of how hard it is to overdose on LSD was probably the case where 8 patients were admitted after snorting what they thought was cocaine, but which turned out to be LSD. The amounts in their blood suggests they each got hundreds of times a normal dose. All eight survived (though it's not clear if they would have without hospital treatment).
    - Neekerer 7y ago
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1129381/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1129381/ here's a research paper on them. They were in really rough shape for a hit but did survive. It's a fascinating read.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - DanBC 7y ago
    The only example I can think of is Tusko, the elephant who was experimented on. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/feb/26/research.science https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/feb/26/research.sci...

dr_dshiv 7y ago

Solid article! Beautiful ending. It's great having psychedelics sold over the counter, like truffles in Amsterdam, but with lsd I prefer a license or prescription scheme.

superhuzza 7y ago

When I first landed on this web page, I could read exactly 1 line of the article before closing all the popups: https://imgur.com/a/HcKD7cX https://imgur.com/a/HcKD7cX

kzzzznot 7y ago
Ironic that I couldn’t see your picture before accepting imgurs cookie notice
- crystaldev 7y ago
  The internet sucks now.
- asdff 7y ago
  Anytime a site tries to twist my arm and take their tracking cookie I just right click>block element and proceed without their stupid cookie.

finnley 7y ago

For those looking for the film 'Looking for Toxin X' - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwlxYHTWyDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwlxYHTWyDQ

BttflyDrkSands 7y ago

The wikipedia article is about Expansionism not Explosionism but I can understand the word because the art form is rather bulging / expanding / spatial

emergie 7y ago
Expansionism is something else. You just read english translation of a polish article. Vladimir Bodnik called it explosionalismus. In polish explosionalismus is translated as eksplozjonalizm or eksplozjonizm. It was translated from that to 'explosionism'. http://www.artcasopis.cz/clanky/explosionalismus-vladimira-boudnika http://www.artcasopis.cz/clanky/explosionalismus-vladimira-b...

severak_cz 7y ago

This is similar case as metamphetamine (better known pervitin), which was re-discovered by some Czech junkies in toxicology literature. In late 70s, somebody actually developed how to synthethise it from pseudoefedrin found in common drugs against flu. So after that, Czech junkies began to ambush pharmacies and some even get employed in efedrin production plant in Roztoky u Prahy.