3 ms·

First World Problem, I know, but: I don't understand why I should not be allowed to take a 2 year vacation in another country without having to leave every 6 m

First World Problem, I know, but: I don't understand why I should not be allowed to take a 2 year vacation in another country without having to leave every 6 months and pray the border agent doesn't find it suspicious that I keep coming back. I don't want to take someone's job, or milk the welfare system, and I would be a net positive to anywhere I decided to vacation (sales tax/VAT, property tax, hotel tax, income tax from the profits off all the crap I bought to live, etc). I'd be happy if I still had to apply for a visa, but the typical 6 month visa prevents me from easily signing a lease.

jaywalk 7y ago
> I don't want to take someone's job, or milk the welfare system How are they supposed to know that? A two year vacation is extraordinarily strange.
- jermaustin1 7y ago
  Proof of self sufficiency.
  - fxtentacle 7y ago
    I'm pretty sure they offer that, but it might cost you lots of money. For example, Singapore requires you to have SG$ 2.5 Mio in assets if you want an unlimited visa.
    - chrismeller 7y ago
      Many countries do. Yeah, it usually requires a TON of liquid cash or assets, though there are even a couple of EU countries that are hard up for investment money and provide easy investment visas for very little. Some (like Estonia) require that you get your business plan validated by a committee or board, but others (like Spain and Portugal and Hungary) really don’t seem to care as long as you claim you can make money and/or employ people (or buy or rent a property for a certain amount and spend 180+ days a year there). There are VERY few people in the world who can take two years off and not worry about needing any income, so it’s incredibly understandable that that’s not a common visa scenario. Americans also forget that the rest of the world doesn’t have to pay income tax on earnings no matter where they live, so the visa ties into tax residency as well.
      - baybal2 7y ago
        China once used to be like that, and the 10 years "golden" (called that way for a hefty processing fee) business visa was pretty much accepted as a "pay to play" option to stay in China. A few years ago China made a u-turn and started tightening on legit applicants. Property bought by business visa holders is now in legal limbo. It's said that it is now nowhere as certain for small business owners to get an extension, even when their business operate in good standing. If you get kicked out with you business still in China, it will suck.
        poiuyt098 7y ago
        you might get kicked out, or you might be held hostage as retaliation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/16/canadians-detained-in-china-charged-with-espionage https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/16/canadians-deta...
  - sdinsn 7y ago
    You can get permanent residency in the US for a $1 million investment (or $500k investment in rural areas).
fxtentacle 7y ago
Because other people that seemed to be like you based on easily measurable characteristics tried to stay after all. That said, apart from the US, I wouldn't know any country where a rich German citizen couldn't get a long-term business or investment visa.
- president 7y ago
  > Because other people that seemed to be like you based on easily measurable characteristics tried to stay after all. Exactly. Like all things, a few bad actors spoil it for the rest of us.
  - vinniejames 7y ago
    Seems to be the exception to the rule, it's not a few bad apples. The vast majority looking to move are not looking for an extended vacation
- jermaustin1 7y ago
  I know the UK just got rid of their "pay-to-stay" visas (Tier 1 - Entrepreneur (£200k) and Tier 1 - Startup (£50k + endorsement), and now have endorsement-based visas (Innovator and Startup). So I guess it is still pay-to-stay, but instead of paying the government, you are paying one of a few dozen private companies that the government chose based on some random criteria, and apparently there were many endorsing organizations that didn't even know they were selected.
  - fxtentacle 7y ago
    $1 Mio to buy Malta citizenship, then you can get a 120 months UK business visa.
bernawil 7y ago
That's how rules/law work. If they'd let people enter 2 years on a tourist visa, for every person like you they'd get 100 with the intention to settle. So better ban it outright.
jeffdavis 7y ago
Signing leases and spending a lot of time somewhere kind of means you live there. And if you live there, then you start to have a reasonable claim to the rights and privileges of a citizen. I'm not saying that's bad, but countries typically want some control over this process.
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  Great point. If you stay somewhere for such a long time, you are much more likely than the average tourist to use government services, meaning you start to consume other people's tax dollars. As such, it makes a lot of sense for the government to charge you lots of money extra for a longer stay, which is what most of them do.
  - jeffdavis 7y ago
    Not all concerns are purely economic. If you live in a city multiple years, you might want to participate in an election, for instance.
    - ryanmercer 7y ago
      I imagine another concern is that the longer you are in a place, the higher the chance you're going to get pregnant or get someone pregnant. Children born within a nation's borders often are citizens which then complicates your situation if you plan to leave and gives you more of a claim to go "but you can't deport me, my kid is a citizen!" in more civilized countries.
nostromo 7y ago
Because not every country wants to be overflowing with expat techbros. I've seen some of this resentment in SE Asia. Foreigners work remotely from paradise, which is great for us -- but the locals see you filling up the nice restaurants and renting the best apartments and driving up the cost of living for locals who, unlike us, don't have many options about where they live.
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  Plus most of the tech bros I met in Asia were socially awkward and super horny which doesn't exactly fit nicely with conservative cultures that highly value marriage and family.
- fjp 7y ago
  Gentrification! Just less local
mrighele 7y ago
> I don't understand why I should not be allowed to take a 2 year vacation in another country without having to leave every 6 months and pray the border agent doesn't find it suspicious that I keep coming back. If you live in a country for 50%+1 days of a solar year you're considered resident in that country and this has a number of implications (first of all taxes). I guess that's why you can't get more that 6 months of visa. You can ask for a resident permit though, but if you come from a rich country and you can show that you have enough money to live you may get it. (I had an American friend that did exactly that).
- jermaustin1 7y ago
  I know the UK allows you 180 days continuous stay, and then you have to leave, but can technically just wait a day and come back, the only problem is the border agent might not like it.
  - timoth 7y ago
    If you're in the UK for more than 183 days in the tax year (6 Apr to the next 5 Apr), you're classed as resident though. https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm11320 https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-... Up to 60 days can be disregarded in the case of "exceptional circumstances", which generally have to be pretty extreme.

jaywalk 7y ago

> I don't want to take someone's job, or milk the welfare system How are they supposed to know that? A two year vacation is extraordinarily strange.

jermaustin1 7y ago
Proof of self sufficiency.
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure they offer that, but it might cost you lots of money. For example, Singapore requires you to have SG$ 2.5 Mio in assets if you want an unlimited visa.
  - chrismeller 7y ago
    Many countries do. Yeah, it usually requires a TON of liquid cash or assets, though there are even a couple of EU countries that are hard up for investment money and provide easy investment visas for very little. Some (like Estonia) require that you get your business plan validated by a committee or board, but others (like Spain and Portugal and Hungary) really don’t seem to care as long as you claim you can make money and/or employ people (or buy or rent a property for a certain amount and spend 180+ days a year there). There are VERY few people in the world who can take two years off and not worry about needing any income, so it’s incredibly understandable that that’s not a common visa scenario. Americans also forget that the rest of the world doesn’t have to pay income tax on earnings no matter where they live, so the visa ties into tax residency as well.
    - baybal2 7y ago
      China once used to be like that, and the 10 years "golden" (called that way for a hefty processing fee) business visa was pretty much accepted as a "pay to play" option to stay in China. A few years ago China made a u-turn and started tightening on legit applicants. Property bought by business visa holders is now in legal limbo. It's said that it is now nowhere as certain for small business owners to get an extension, even when their business operate in good standing. If you get kicked out with you business still in China, it will suck.
      - poiuyt098 7y ago
        you might get kicked out, or you might be held hostage as retaliation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/16/canadians-detained-in-china-charged-with-espionage https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/16/canadians-deta...
- sdinsn 7y ago
  You can get permanent residency in the US for a $1 million investment (or $500k investment in rural areas).

fxtentacle 7y ago

Because other people that seemed to be like you based on easily measurable characteristics tried to stay after all. That said, apart from the US, I wouldn't know any country where a rich German citizen couldn't get a long-term business or investment visa.

president 7y ago
> Because other people that seemed to be like you based on easily measurable characteristics tried to stay after all. Exactly. Like all things, a few bad actors spoil it for the rest of us.
- vinniejames 7y ago
  Seems to be the exception to the rule, it's not a few bad apples. The vast majority looking to move are not looking for an extended vacation
jermaustin1 7y ago
I know the UK just got rid of their "pay-to-stay" visas (Tier 1 - Entrepreneur (£200k) and Tier 1 - Startup (£50k + endorsement), and now have endorsement-based visas (Innovator and Startup). So I guess it is still pay-to-stay, but instead of paying the government, you are paying one of a few dozen private companies that the government chose based on some random criteria, and apparently there were many endorsing organizations that didn't even know they were selected.
- fxtentacle 7y ago
  $1 Mio to buy Malta citizenship, then you can get a 120 months UK business visa.

bernawil 7y ago

That's how rules/law work. If they'd let people enter 2 years on a tourist visa, for every person like you they'd get 100 with the intention to settle. So better ban it outright.

jeffdavis 7y ago

Signing leases and spending a lot of time somewhere kind of means you live there. And if you live there, then you start to have a reasonable claim to the rights and privileges of a citizen. I'm not saying that's bad, but countries typically want some control over this process.

fxtentacle 7y ago
Great point. If you stay somewhere for such a long time, you are much more likely than the average tourist to use government services, meaning you start to consume other people's tax dollars. As such, it makes a lot of sense for the government to charge you lots of money extra for a longer stay, which is what most of them do.
- jeffdavis 7y ago
  Not all concerns are purely economic. If you live in a city multiple years, you might want to participate in an election, for instance.
  - ryanmercer 7y ago
    I imagine another concern is that the longer you are in a place, the higher the chance you're going to get pregnant or get someone pregnant. Children born within a nation's borders often are citizens which then complicates your situation if you plan to leave and gives you more of a claim to go "but you can't deport me, my kid is a citizen!" in more civilized countries.

nostromo 7y ago

Because not every country wants to be overflowing with expat techbros. I've seen some of this resentment in SE Asia. Foreigners work remotely from paradise, which is great for us -- but the locals see you filling up the nice restaurants and renting the best apartments and driving up the cost of living for locals who, unlike us, don't have many options about where they live.

fxtentacle 7y ago
Plus most of the tech bros I met in Asia were socially awkward and super horny which doesn't exactly fit nicely with conservative cultures that highly value marriage and family.
fjp 7y ago
Gentrification! Just less local

mrighele 7y ago

> I don't understand why I should not be allowed to take a 2 year vacation in another country without having to leave every 6 months and pray the border agent doesn't find it suspicious that I keep coming back. If you live in a country for 50%+1 days of a solar year you're considered resident in that country and this has a number of implications (first of all taxes). I guess that's why you can't get more that 6 months of visa. You can ask for a resident permit though, but if you come from a rich country and you can show that you have enough money to live you may get it. (I had an American friend that did exactly that).

jermaustin1 7y ago
I know the UK allows you 180 days continuous stay, and then you have to leave, but can technically just wait a day and come back, the only problem is the border agent might not like it.
- timoth 7y ago
  If you're in the UK for more than 183 days in the tax year (6 Apr to the next 5 Apr), you're classed as resident though. https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm11320 https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-... Up to 60 days can be disregarded in the case of "exceptional circumstances", which generally have to be pretty extreme.