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Sounds like "Naive Realism" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%C3%AFve_realism_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%C3%AFve_realism_(psychology... "Ha

by jp555 7y ago

Sounds like "Naive Realism" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%C3%AFve_realism_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%C3%AFve_realism_(psychology... "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?" - George Carlin. Funny... but what's even funnier is that EVERYBODY THINKS THIS. People dont realize that it's not that there are a group of bad drivers out there, but that everyone drives badly sometimes. It's always different people. The toxicicity online is similar. There's just a lot more people online a lot more hours per day, and everybody is a jerk sometimes.

growlist 7y ago
But this is possibly a kind of a fallacy in itself: it's possible that there is bad behaviour out there, and that it's associated with one particular group as opposed to another; there's points to be scored by pushing a particular position online if it influences reality. In my experience on some forums, mention anything about Brexit and a flood of anti-Brexit comments appears; either there were hundreds of lurkers that just happened to be online and spot the comment, or there was organisation behind it.
- jp555 7y ago
  There may be groups of bad actors coordinating, maybe. But you remind me of this Alan Moore quote: "The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy or the grey aliens or the 12 foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless." The more I learn about probability and complexity, as well as the lack of general knowledge of ergodicity leading us to make fallacious conclusions, the more this rings true.
  - krainboltgreene 7y ago
    Right but like...There are organized movements by governments to do horrific things. China is doing it, Nazi Germany did it, America has and is and will do it. Random quotes from counter-culture writers doesn't negate that bad actors have coordinated, they weren't bothered by sunlight, and when they got enough power they did truly horrific things.
    - jp555 7y ago
      I dont mean to suggest that i dont think people can organize in groups. Or that group efforts can never have negative effects. Im trying to say that there is an organic ecosystem of groups that severely constrains all groups in unpredictable complex ways, and much more than most people would think.

by jp555 7y ago

growlist 7y ago

But this is possibly a kind of a fallacy in itself: it's possible that there is bad behaviour out there, and that it's associated with one particular group as opposed to another; there's points to be scored by pushing a particular position online if it influences reality. In my experience on some forums, mention anything about Brexit and a flood of anti-Brexit comments appears; either there were hundreds of lurkers that just happened to be online and spot the comment, or there was organisation behind it.

jp555 7y ago
There may be groups of bad actors coordinating, maybe. But you remind me of this Alan Moore quote: "The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic. The truth is, that it is not the Jewish banking conspiracy or the grey aliens or the 12 foot reptiloids from another dimension that are in control. The truth is more frightening, nobody is in control. The world is rudderless." The more I learn about probability and complexity, as well as the lack of general knowledge of ergodicity leading us to make fallacious conclusions, the more this rings true.
- krainboltgreene 7y ago
  Right but like...There are organized movements by governments to do horrific things. China is doing it, Nazi Germany did it, America has and is and will do it. Random quotes from counter-culture writers doesn't negate that bad actors have coordinated, they weren't bothered by sunlight, and when they got enough power they did truly horrific things.
  - jp555 7y ago
    I dont mean to suggest that i dont think people can organize in groups. Or that group efforts can never have negative effects. Im trying to say that there is an organic ecosystem of groups that severely constrains all groups in unpredictable complex ways, and much more than most people would think.