6 ms·

> Sorry to say but this proves that for someone who actually has to work for a living ie earn money, corporate life is absolutely the correct choice. Not reall

> Sorry to say but this proves that for someone who actually has to work for a living ie earn money, corporate life is absolutely the correct choice. Not really. This just proves that corporate life isn't the most profitable option for the OP. You just can't make sweeping statements like this based on a single anecdote. I'll offer this to other "corporate" folk out there. I was self-employed since late 2010 until I recently (last month) joined a mid-stage startup. During my last year of self-employment I took home ~$400k in cash, and lots more in early-stage stock, and worked maybe 15-20 hours per week. There are very few corporate jobs that would even come close to that balance of take-home pay and work-life balance.

liveoneggs 7y ago
how did you get early stage stock being self employed?
- theli0nheart 7y ago
  Most of my consulting work was with early-stage startups. I would ofter offer a fixed cash cap (say, $50k) at an hourly rate, and any work beyond that would accrue towards a SAFE. Less risk for the founder, gave me incentive to finish the bulk of the work within the cap, but also didn't punish me if I didn't.
  - liveoneggs 7y ago
    neat
  - dbancajas 7y ago
    what was your hourly rate on consulting?
    - theli0nheart 7y ago
      $300 / hour.
  - redisman 7y ago
    Very interesting idea. Thanks for sharing.
- gk1 7y ago
  Consultants can be granted Non-Qualified Stock Options (NSO).
daxaxelrod 7y ago
That's pretty incredible. What made you want to join the mid stage startup? Also did most of your income come from consulting type work or product revenue?
- theli0nheart 7y ago
  Thanks! TBH, I just got bored. All of the inefficient aspect of my work got slowly eliminated over the years due to process improvements, which meant that only the most unpleasant, manual aspects were left over (read: legal, negotiation, business development, etc.). 80% of my income was consulting related. I tried to branch off into making a SaaS and "failed" (which I'm still kind of excited about but have no time to pursue), but I did succeed in making an App Store portfolio which brings in decent profit.
  - daxaxelrod 7y ago
    Ah interesting. Thanks for sharing!
  - dbancajas 7y ago
    > iled" (which I'm still kind of excited about but have no time to pursue), but I did succeed in making an App Store portfolio which brings in decent profit. can you share what you did consult on? To me consulting is very mysterious as it's a very generic term but I'm always amazed by people earning 250K-500K due to "consulting". Is it easy to do or more like being in the right place/right time/right skillset?
    - theli0nheart 7y ago
      > can you share what you did consult on? To me consulting is very mysterious as it's a very generic term but I'm always amazed by people earning 250K-500K due to "consulting" Totally. I'm a generalist software engineer with a specialty in early stage startup tech. In addition to actually writing the code, setting up infrastructure (AWS and all that), and anything explicitly code or "DevOps" related, I also helped clients understand the development process, advised them on product, worked with designers, etc. I agree that consulting is kind of a nebulous term, but if you ask me, it's essentially shorthand for "solving problems that people have that they can't (or don't want to) solve themselves". The problems that clients came to me with were all related to getting a startup off the ground from the technical side.
reflectiv 7y ago
I'll offer a counter example in that the startup I joined failed miserably and I ended up losing out on a LOT of income. I am now working for a decent 6-figure income and EXTREMELY happy with the stability and 40-50 hour work weeks...in comparison to the ABSOLUTE GRIND I went through trying to help that startup get off the ground - this is a godsend. Your scenario is VERY UNLIKELY IMO.
- leadingthenet 7y ago
  WHAT is WITH the RANDOM CAPITALISATION?
  - jmnicolas 7y ago
    Hint : it's not random.
  - reflectiv 7y ago
    It's called emphasis.
- theli0nheart 7y ago
  I've seen that happen so many times, and it sucks. I'm sorry you went through that experience. :( My first job was at a startup that crashed and burned, and what I took from that experience was that the only financially responsible way to work with startups as an engineer is to work on a lot of them to spread out the risk, or be a founder. There's just no other way unless you're comfortable with a ton of risk. Like I said in my post above, this "success" didn't come overnight; I spent many years grinding with the business development, upping my development skills, and putting myself out there. It was not easy.
- cambalache 7y ago
  Stability until you get canned.
  - reflectiv 7y ago
    That's anywhere...at least I have a reliable check until I don't...and I have reasonable hours. Didn't have either of those before. Also, if I get canned, I can find another job...there is a LOT of work out there for what I do...
SergeAx 7y ago
> During my last year of self-employment I took home ~$400k in cash, and lots more in early-stage stock You've lost me here. Are those ealry-stage stock of yourself, giving you were self-employed? Or you made side jobs with cash+stock payments?
- bdcravens 7y ago
  I believe clients compensated them with stock.
- theli0nheart 7y ago
  > You've lost me here. Are those ealry-stage stock of yourself, giving you were self-employed? Or you made side jobs with cash+stock payments? Clarified here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202222

liveoneggs 7y ago

how did you get early stage stock being self employed?

theli0nheart 7y ago
Most of my consulting work was with early-stage startups. I would ofter offer a fixed cash cap (say, $50k) at an hourly rate, and any work beyond that would accrue towards a SAFE. Less risk for the founder, gave me incentive to finish the bulk of the work within the cap, but also didn't punish me if I didn't.
- liveoneggs 7y ago
  neat
- dbancajas 7y ago
  what was your hourly rate on consulting?
  - theli0nheart 7y ago
    $300 / hour.
- redisman 7y ago
  Very interesting idea. Thanks for sharing.
gk1 7y ago
Consultants can be granted Non-Qualified Stock Options (NSO).

daxaxelrod 7y ago

That's pretty incredible. What made you want to join the mid stage startup? Also did most of your income come from consulting type work or product revenue?

theli0nheart 7y ago
Thanks! TBH, I just got bored. All of the inefficient aspect of my work got slowly eliminated over the years due to process improvements, which meant that only the most unpleasant, manual aspects were left over (read: legal, negotiation, business development, etc.). 80% of my income was consulting related. I tried to branch off into making a SaaS and "failed" (which I'm still kind of excited about but have no time to pursue), but I did succeed in making an App Store portfolio which brings in decent profit.
- daxaxelrod 7y ago
  Ah interesting. Thanks for sharing!
- dbancajas 7y ago
  > iled" (which I'm still kind of excited about but have no time to pursue), but I did succeed in making an App Store portfolio which brings in decent profit. can you share what you did consult on? To me consulting is very mysterious as it's a very generic term but I'm always amazed by people earning 250K-500K due to "consulting". Is it easy to do or more like being in the right place/right time/right skillset?
  - theli0nheart 7y ago
    > can you share what you did consult on? To me consulting is very mysterious as it's a very generic term but I'm always amazed by people earning 250K-500K due to "consulting" Totally. I'm a generalist software engineer with a specialty in early stage startup tech. In addition to actually writing the code, setting up infrastructure (AWS and all that), and anything explicitly code or "DevOps" related, I also helped clients understand the development process, advised them on product, worked with designers, etc. I agree that consulting is kind of a nebulous term, but if you ask me, it's essentially shorthand for "solving problems that people have that they can't (or don't want to) solve themselves". The problems that clients came to me with were all related to getting a startup off the ground from the technical side.

reflectiv 7y ago

I'll offer a counter example in that the startup I joined failed miserably and I ended up losing out on a LOT of income. I am now working for a decent 6-figure income and EXTREMELY happy with the stability and 40-50 hour work weeks...in comparison to the ABSOLUTE GRIND I went through trying to help that startup get off the ground - this is a godsend. Your scenario is VERY UNLIKELY IMO.

leadingthenet 7y ago
WHAT is WITH the RANDOM CAPITALISATION?
- jmnicolas 7y ago
  Hint : it's not random.
- reflectiv 7y ago
  It's called emphasis.
theli0nheart 7y ago
I've seen that happen so many times, and it sucks. I'm sorry you went through that experience. :( My first job was at a startup that crashed and burned, and what I took from that experience was that the only financially responsible way to work with startups as an engineer is to work on a lot of them to spread out the risk, or be a founder. There's just no other way unless you're comfortable with a ton of risk. Like I said in my post above, this "success" didn't come overnight; I spent many years grinding with the business development, upping my development skills, and putting myself out there. It was not easy.
cambalache 7y ago
Stability until you get canned.
- reflectiv 7y ago
  That's anywhere...at least I have a reliable check until I don't...and I have reasonable hours. Didn't have either of those before. Also, if I get canned, I can find another job...there is a LOT of work out there for what I do...

SergeAx 7y ago

> During my last year of self-employment I took home ~$400k in cash, and lots more in early-stage stock You've lost me here. Are those ealry-stage stock of yourself, giving you were self-employed? Or you made side jobs with cash+stock payments?

bdcravens 7y ago
I believe clients compensated them with stock.
theli0nheart 7y ago
> You've lost me here. Are those ealry-stage stock of yourself, giving you were self-employed? Or you made side jobs with cash+stock payments? Clarified here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202222