5 ms·

Prop 13 and rent control both highly encourage NIMBYism and I would say are more important factors than property values. If a large apartment is built next to y

Prop 13 and rent control both highly encourage NIMBYism and I would say are more important factors than property values. If a large apartment is built next to your house and you don't like the extra noise, the big shadow, and lots of people looking into your back yard, you could decide to move. Without prop 13 selling your house and moving a few blocks over to a location you like better is a pain in the ass and you have to pay off the realtors, but once you move, you just get on with your life. With prop 13 your property tax could double or triple, say going from $1000 a month to $3000 a month. This $2000 a month, every month, is going to make you mad and hurt you financially constantly for the rest of your life. No wonder people fight so hard to keep things like it was when they moved in. People with rent control are under the same incentives. Have a $2000 rent controlled apartment that would rent for $4000? If something changes in your neighborhood the makes you want to move, you don't really have that option. So you fight really hard against changes. The longer Prop 13 is around the worse it gets and California has just passed statewide rent control. Things will continue to get worse on this front and I don't see a way for California society to change the situation.

rayiner 7y ago
> California has just passed statewide rent control. Things will continue to get worse on this front and I don't see a way for California society to change the situation. They did just change the situation. They made it worse!
- njarboe 7y ago
  The beatings will continue until moral improves.
BurningFrog 7y ago
Yeah, the lock-in effect of both Prop 13 and rent control deserve a lot more awareness! Reminds me of what I've heard about working in the academic world: Since people often have a job for life, workplace conflict can't be resolved as everywhere else, where someone switches job or gets fired. Instead people make each other's life hell forever. Just a story I've heard, I have no personal experience. But I've heard it several times.
mdavidn 7y ago
This is the problem. Prop 13 creates perverse incentives that are not obvious to owners in other states. One doesn't need to live in California long before they see a community leaflet opposing a local housing development. These developments, on the surface, all look like great ideas. The stated reasons to oppose the permit all seem thin: Accusing the developer of greed, or claiming that traffic will get worse. Homes closer to work and a local discount store do increase traffic on surrounding streets but decrease cross-town traffic in the wider area. They might even encourage people to walk!
hashouseincali 7y ago
This logic makes no sense and people like myself can afford to keep our houses mainly because of prop 13. Since buying my house almost 8 years ago the market has double at no fault of my own. This would double my taxes making a good portion unable to be written off thanks to new IRS rules. Yet, you want to call that locked-in? I love my house and where I live but it would be painful with that extra $2k a month tax bill you mentioned.
- mdavidn 7y ago
  When someone proposes a four plus one housing development around the corner from your house to help address the state's housing shortage, would you oppose it? You can't move if you don't like it, after all, since you'd lose your property tax break. If you oppose such developments, then the higher value of your home _is your fault_.
  - hashouseincali 7y ago
    Im in favor of any housing that makes sense but dont espouse the logic that just because someone wants to move to a town everyone has to agree to let giant apartment blocks get put up. I did indeed buy where Im at because I enjoyed the small town culture but I understand the need for managed growth. My town is already overwhelmed with infrastructure and water issues that poorly planned growth will exacerbate. There is a lot of land in Cali we dont all need to live on the coast. Being here is a privilege not a right and Im not being selfish wanting to keep that for which Ive worked hard. Growth is inevitable ... Poorly planned cities are not. Just look at Daly city if you want to see the ugly side of unhindered housing expansion and poor infrastructure. Further, your argument still doesnt engender the need to get rid of prop 13...
    - mdavidn 7y ago
      All of your arguments have the side effect of increasing the value of your home, thereby making you more dependent on Prop 13.
      - 7y ago

rayiner 7y ago

> California has just passed statewide rent control. Things will continue to get worse on this front and I don't see a way for California society to change the situation. They did just change the situation. They made it worse!

njarboe 7y ago
The beatings will continue until moral improves.

BurningFrog 7y ago

Yeah, the lock-in effect of both Prop 13 and rent control deserve a lot more awareness! Reminds me of what I've heard about working in the academic world: Since people often have a job for life, workplace conflict can't be resolved as everywhere else, where someone switches job or gets fired. Instead people make each other's life hell forever. Just a story I've heard, I have no personal experience. But I've heard it several times.

mdavidn 7y ago

This is the problem. Prop 13 creates perverse incentives that are not obvious to owners in other states. One doesn't need to live in California long before they see a community leaflet opposing a local housing development. These developments, on the surface, all look like great ideas. The stated reasons to oppose the permit all seem thin: Accusing the developer of greed, or claiming that traffic will get worse. Homes closer to work and a local discount store do increase traffic on surrounding streets but decrease cross-town traffic in the wider area. They might even encourage people to walk!

hashouseincali 7y ago

This logic makes no sense and people like myself can afford to keep our houses mainly because of prop 13. Since buying my house almost 8 years ago the market has double at no fault of my own. This would double my taxes making a good portion unable to be written off thanks to new IRS rules. Yet, you want to call that locked-in? I love my house and where I live but it would be painful with that extra $2k a month tax bill you mentioned.

mdavidn 7y ago
When someone proposes a four plus one housing development around the corner from your house to help address the state's housing shortage, would you oppose it? You can't move if you don't like it, after all, since you'd lose your property tax break. If you oppose such developments, then the higher value of your home _is your fault_.
- hashouseincali 7y ago
  Im in favor of any housing that makes sense but dont espouse the logic that just because someone wants to move to a town everyone has to agree to let giant apartment blocks get put up. I did indeed buy where Im at because I enjoyed the small town culture but I understand the need for managed growth. My town is already overwhelmed with infrastructure and water issues that poorly planned growth will exacerbate. There is a lot of land in Cali we dont all need to live on the coast. Being here is a privilege not a right and Im not being selfish wanting to keep that for which Ive worked hard. Growth is inevitable ... Poorly planned cities are not. Just look at Daly city if you want to see the ugly side of unhindered housing expansion and poor infrastructure. Further, your argument still doesnt engender the need to get rid of prop 13...
  - mdavidn 7y ago
    All of your arguments have the side effect of increasing the value of your home, thereby making you more dependent on Prop 13.
    - 7y ago