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Deplatforming and disemploying is fundamentally different in that it works by social consensus rather than an individual “fiat,” at the very least. I can’t depl

Deplatforming and disemploying is fundamentally different in that it works by social consensus rather than an individual “fiat,” at the very least. I can’t deplatform you without getting the agreement of all relevant platforms. That’s one big difference in the things you are comparing, without diving too deep into a different topic.

grabbalacious 7y ago
Good point. Although I think it tends to be a consensus among an influential minority of the populace rather than society as a whole.
- wwright 7y ago
  That is fair, but realistically, I think that’s every social consensus… and the implications are much more far reaching than social media platforms :-)
- krapp 7y ago
  Every motive factor in "society" is a consensus among an influential minority rather than the whole. Society is not a unified entity, nor are its boundaries even strongly defined, so there cannot be a consensus among a "whole" which doesn't exist.
  - grabbalacious 7y ago
    Well, that's OK, provided we're honest about what it is, e.g. we don't use media to create the illusion of a majority consensus where none exists.
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  Yeah, those uppity influential minorities, what ARE we going to do about them? Exasperated sigh.
  - homonculus1 7y ago
    Not "minorities" in the sense of black people or trans people or whichever group, but meaning the narrow sliver of upper-middle-class urbanites in a highly visible cluster of academic and media institutions. "Blue checks" if you will. Many of whom don't even overlap with the above minority groups, yet use them as tokens to push their moral system. They do this because that moral system is rigidly codified but arbitrarily extensible, so it has a built-in need for consultants and gatekeepers to tell the rest of us what the current standard is to be an empathetic decent person instead of a racist sexist xenophobe. This might sound overly cynical or uncharitable but woke culture is dissonant with genuine human compassion. There's a big missing mood there and I think the difference can be attributed to career incentives for the people at the top of it. The rank and file mean well but they don't grow past the moral crusade attitude because their leaders actively disparage those who do, and most people learn by example. The religious right is the same, but they're not as relevant right now.
- philwelch 7y ago
  Mob rule is never actually mob rule, there's a complicated relationship between the mob and the demagogues who alternately control the mob while also being controlled by it.
  - lowdose 7y ago
    Controlled opposition while shuffling the real dirty jobs on them and maintaining plausible deniability.
cheese4242 7y ago
"Social consensus" in the case of deplatforming is a handful of yuppy bureaucrats in Silicon Valley deciding what people far less privileged than themselves are allowed to say. It's not fundamentally different, just much more effete.
- wwright 7y ago
  To confirm, your argument is that refusing to allow someone to advocate for genocide on your blog platform is fundamentally similar to killing a man for refusing to pay protection money?
  - cheese4242 7y ago
    Ludicrous hyperbole and a clumsy attempt at shaming.
    - wwright 7y ago
      It was a sincere question — are we talking about mafia killings and deplatforming, or something else?
      - jimmaswell 7y ago
        I'm thinking of when they tried to deplatform the trans activist youtuber Contrapoints over one trans person who guest starred on her show one time turning out to have a view of certain gender things those people didn't like. The host probably wasn't even aware and it's gotten absurd how this can happen with such a degree of separation - dare to even interact with somebody guilty of wrongthink and now you and everyone you've associated with is also guilty and eaten alive. Very absolutist and reminds me of brainless zero tolerance policies in public education.
        krapp 7y ago
        Except Contrapoints hasn't been deplatformed, so using her as an example of the extremist and arbitrary power of the "mafia morality" behind deplatforming to punish "wrongthink" doesn't work.

grabbalacious 7y ago

Good point. Although I think it tends to be a consensus among an influential minority of the populace rather than society as a whole.

wwright 7y ago
That is fair, but realistically, I think that’s every social consensus… and the implications are much more far reaching than social media platforms :-)
krapp 7y ago
Every motive factor in "society" is a consensus among an influential minority rather than the whole. Society is not a unified entity, nor are its boundaries even strongly defined, so there cannot be a consensus among a "whole" which doesn't exist.
- grabbalacious 7y ago
  Well, that's OK, provided we're honest about what it is, e.g. we don't use media to create the illusion of a majority consensus where none exists.
DonHopkins 7y ago
Yeah, those uppity influential minorities, what ARE we going to do about them? Exasperated sigh.
- homonculus1 7y ago
  Not "minorities" in the sense of black people or trans people or whichever group, but meaning the narrow sliver of upper-middle-class urbanites in a highly visible cluster of academic and media institutions. "Blue checks" if you will. Many of whom don't even overlap with the above minority groups, yet use them as tokens to push their moral system. They do this because that moral system is rigidly codified but arbitrarily extensible, so it has a built-in need for consultants and gatekeepers to tell the rest of us what the current standard is to be an empathetic decent person instead of a racist sexist xenophobe. This might sound overly cynical or uncharitable but woke culture is dissonant with genuine human compassion. There's a big missing mood there and I think the difference can be attributed to career incentives for the people at the top of it. The rank and file mean well but they don't grow past the moral crusade attitude because their leaders actively disparage those who do, and most people learn by example. The religious right is the same, but they're not as relevant right now.
philwelch 7y ago
Mob rule is never actually mob rule, there's a complicated relationship between the mob and the demagogues who alternately control the mob while also being controlled by it.
- lowdose 7y ago
  Controlled opposition while shuffling the real dirty jobs on them and maintaining plausible deniability.

cheese4242 7y ago

"Social consensus" in the case of deplatforming is a handful of yuppy bureaucrats in Silicon Valley deciding what people far less privileged than themselves are allowed to say. It's not fundamentally different, just much more effete.

wwright 7y ago
To confirm, your argument is that refusing to allow someone to advocate for genocide on your blog platform is fundamentally similar to killing a man for refusing to pay protection money?
- cheese4242 7y ago
  Ludicrous hyperbole and a clumsy attempt at shaming.
  - wwright 7y ago
    It was a sincere question — are we talking about mafia killings and deplatforming, or something else?
    - jimmaswell 7y ago
      I'm thinking of when they tried to deplatform the trans activist youtuber Contrapoints over one trans person who guest starred on her show one time turning out to have a view of certain gender things those people didn't like. The host probably wasn't even aware and it's gotten absurd how this can happen with such a degree of separation - dare to even interact with somebody guilty of wrongthink and now you and everyone you've associated with is also guilty and eaten alive. Very absolutist and reminds me of brainless zero tolerance policies in public education.
      - krapp 7y ago
        Except Contrapoints hasn't been deplatformed, so using her as an example of the extremist and arbitrary power of the "mafia morality" behind deplatforming to punish "wrongthink" doesn't work.